Piece Of Thread Stuck In Rotating Hook Consew 206 Look Alike

[kwalk20]

O lordy can somebody please help me. I don't know if I'm just to have bad luck with this or this is my break- in initiation. I have the Seiko sth 8bld-3 which is identical to the Consew 206rb-5. I have the tiniest piece of thread lodged in my rotating hook and it's causing the entire thing to freeze up. It's #138 thread so it's a fat little piece. I have tried the safety clutch, I have searched the internet/ youtube and there seems to be nothing addressing this issue (to the degree mine is). I found one vid by atlas sewing where he shows a method of loosening a screw and moving the finger out of the way to get it moving and remove the thread. My problem is mine is wedged and has now broken off to a tiny little something (but thick #138). I have searched these boards. I have tried shimmying it out with dental floss because I figured it was thin and strong, but to no avail. I dropped a tiny bit of oil hoping it would make it slippery enough that I could pull it out, again no go.It is getting tinier each time I tug on it but the thickness is still lodged inside those grooves. Is there any other way to get this out without throwing it out of timing? I've attached pictures so you can see where it is.

[CowboyBob]

Put some on the groove the hook spins on (where the piece of thread is) all the way around,take the belt off & rack the machine back & forth w/your hand.Once the oil gets in there it'll make it slippery enough for the hook to spin.

[kwalk20]

Thank you for responding! I'm going to try that right now! Wish me luck!

[Uwe]

I've used a hairdryer on several occasions to warm things up enough to get stuck parts going, either due to expanding metal creating a tiny bit of wiggle room, or softening matter that was causing the friction/sticking. It may help a little in your case if the oil alone isn't doing the trick.

Tim Allen's character from Home Improvement would take a blow torch to the hook and melt that nylon thread right out of it - and then buy a new hook or machine.

[stelmackr]

I've had some luck with hemostats that grip then lock. Once locked, just continue to twist the same direction. Worked one time for me.

Bob Stelmack

[kwalk20]

Thanks guys for giving me your advice for this conundrum. I haven't done anything yet. Just as I was about to the doorbell rang and I'm finally back. It's been on my mind all day. I'm starting with the oil as Bob suggested, and if that doesn't work moving onto the heat. Thanks so much!

[kwalk20]

Hi all! Firstly I want to thank you all who offered a hand to help. Finally, got her done! I tried everything as suggested here to no avail. Just in case anyone's interested here is how I fixed it. I ended up taking the hooking assembly apart, but never having to take it completely off. I took off every tiny little screw and took the finger completely off and wiggled and waddled and was able to move the race and there was what we have termed "The Trouble." The Trouble fell right out after the assemble was able to move. After doing a test stitch, I see that the timing is off or could it be that it is just the hook timing or what this is I don't know. Is it just the tension? The top threads look fine, but both bottom threads are big and loopy. What do I need to correct here? Pictures below

[CowboyBob]

Make sure your top thread is threaded correctly,(pulled down in between the discs) or else it's too loose tension on top.

[Darren Brosowski]

Personally I love it when people pull something to bits, reassemble it then get it going again.

For me it is the point where you really start to understand your machine.

[kwalk20]

Thanks Bob! I was hoping and praying it was something simple and not timimng!!!! I think I'm going to be alright!

[kwalk20]

You are so right Darren! It gives you a whole new respect for the machine, but also makes you more comfortable and less intimidated too. I like to tinker with things (comes from being my Dad's little helper), and the hubster does too. He can usually fix almost anything but this machine is making a believer out of both of us because we don't fully understand it yet, like what not to do, what this or that means, so we don't want to start messing with stuff unnecessarily and end up with more problems. But it certainly is making me feel more comfortable and now I know what to do for that should it ever happen again. I may have created a whole new problem in the process, but if it just the tension like Bob said, then I am good to go!! I feel somewhat accomplished!

[CowboyBob]

I should of mentioned that if you keep sewing with them big loops like that you'll probably end up jamming it up again.Don't forget to hold the needle thread the first 3 stitches when you start sewing.

[kwalk20]

Here is the latest test stitch. I have adjusted the tension over and over again. It is almost at it's last setting just to get the back looking like this and it's still looping off and on. What else could it be or should I continue tightening the tension until it gets consistent? When I got the machine the tension knob was no where near this tight. I've never had to touch it. Every since getting the trouble out this tension issue happened. We didn't even bother the tension knob. I don't know how this happened. What else could it be?

[Northmount]

Recheck the top thread path for correct threading. Is the thread properly under the check spring. Replace the needle if you haven't already. Make sure the bobbin is installed correctly and the correct rotation. The machine is having trouble pulling the top thread back up. Try a larger needle.

Tom

[kwalk20]

Okay Tom, thank you much. Will do that now. What I have done is taken the hook assembly a part again and re-seated it pressing it a little snug and screwed everything back in. Now the bobbin thread is coming out on the top. So it looks like it's a matter of getting the tension right, right?? Should I change needles anyway? I'm goin to check threading and check the bobbin like you said. I think I'm totally getting broken in, lol.

Edited December 14, 2015 by kwalk20

[gottaknow]

One thing to keep in mind on this style of hook. The positioning finger has to be set into the notch in the bobbin basket just enough to prevent the basket from free spinning. If you have removed the hook, pay attention to where this positioning finger ends up. If you moved it on your first removal of the hook, it needs to be reset. Irregular loops on the bottom are often caused by this being too tight or having a nick on it. I reposted one of your pictures so you can see what I'm talking about. If you did remove the hook and you're no longer getting bottom loops, you likely have it push in farther (away from the positing finger) Just keep in mind the positioning finger must be checked every time you move your hook right or left. Have fun!

Regards, Eric

[Uwe]

It looks like, the tension adjustment has no effect, really. Perhaps something totally different is goin on. Are you positive it's threaded correctly? Is the tension release activated/stuck somehow? Is the timing itself reasonable when you look at the needle and hook movement? Is the safety clutch engaged (if you have one?) Sometimes a sticky safety clutch disengages but hangs on tight enough make it appear engaged. The fist step in timing adjustment is to make sure the safety clutch (if present) is properly engaged,

Perhaps timing slipped a little during your fix and needs to be put back to normal. It almost looks like the thread take-up lever is not pulling far enough to pull the stitch tight.

I'd manually turn the hand wheel and observe the whole movement of parts (hook,needle,take-up lever,etc.) to make sure it looks reasonable. If the thread take-up lever starts to descend again before it ever has a chance to pull the stitch tight, something is definitely out of synch.

I once adjusted timing on a machine using a manual with incorrect needle rise info. It made the thread super tight as it wrapped around the bobbin. I can imagine an opposite scenario where the thread is way too loose because of timing being off in the other direction. Just because the hook manages to pick up the thread, does not mean that timing is spot-on.

Find the timing specs and verify them on your machine. It's usually boils down to something simple like "The needle rises X mm from the bottom when the hook meets the needle in the middle of the scarf, as close a possible without touching the needle." Verifying the timing should be fairly easy. Adjusting the timing may be a little trickier, depending on the machine's design.

The Consew 206RB-5 manual (http://www.rubyrube.com/Consew/downloads/206RB-5.pdf) has timing instructions and safety clutch reset info. You can use the manual to verify that the various adjustment requirements are correct on your machine.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Uwe

[kwalk20]

Eric, thanks so much for you response. I have repositioned the finger again and now I am adjusting the tension in the opposite (loose) direction as before. This time if I make one more turn I'm afraid the knob and springs will pop off. I think I will try to reposition it one more time for good measure after seeing your post to make sure it is in just right.

[kwalk20]

Uwe, thank you very much for your response, and I think you may be right. I am going to try making sure the finger is correct again and I hope that fixes the problem. But it definitely seems like the tension is not really having any effect. Well, it is but minimal. Actually I have gotten it to almost make good stitches, but I have to go drastically one way or the other tension wise. I know it can't be a good thing to have your tension dial so loose that it's almost to the point of popping off. And to get good stitches, I would have to go even looser and I'm afraid that will make the knob and springs come off. So after checking the finger again, if it doesn't work. I'm going down your protocol. This is getting the best of me. I want to give up... but I'm not.

How do I make sure the safety clutch is engaged?

Edited December 14, 2015 by kwalk20

[gottaknow]

If your machine is sewing, even with bad tension, your clutch is ok. Check your threading, readjust your tension starting with the bobbin. You want just enough tension to give a bit of resistance. Then start tightening the top. You must use at least two ply of leather to set your tension.

Regards, Eric

[kwalk20]

Thank you Eric. I'm trying it now. I was only using a single piece of leather. Let me do it that way and see what happens. Thanks again.

[Uwe]

Don't give up. Listen To Eric before anybody else, including me, haha! Eric makes a living repairing and adjusting sewing machines, I just spend money.

It is, however, very rewarding figuring out how your machine works. That manual is actually super nice compared to others I've seen. It's hard to wrestle with multiple problems at once. After you get over this bump and your machine is sewing again nicely, I'd recommend going through the manual section by section and just comparing the machine with what the manual describes. Make one adjustment at a time once you're comfortable and soon it all will start to make sense. Figuring out how things work before they break is worth a lot, especially if you can avoid a trip to the repair shop.

The clutch mechanism is described on the last page of the manual I referenced earlier. You should be able to look at that cylinder and see the little ball that pops into the hole to engage the clutch. I'm showing how to set a very similar safety clutch in my Adler 67 hook timing video (the hook is very different, but the safety clutch is very similar).

We've had a couple instances on this forum lately with old machines where the safety clutch was frozen in place due to corrosion or hardened oil varnish, and did not function at all (include my own Consew 225 machine). Even if yours is properly engaged right now, it's good to check and make sure it actually lets go when it's supposed to. If it doesn't let go when it's supposed to, you may get a piece of thread lodged so hard inside the hook track that you have to dismantle it to get it out again.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Uwe

[kwalk20]

Well what do you know... I'm getting consistent stitches! But instead of having to tighten the tension, I had to loosen it considerably so, but not to the point that the knob and springs are about to pop off so that's good, isn't it? Is it a "not so good" thing to have your tension considerably looser than it was originally? BUT I hear a slight sound that I wasn't hearing before. Now I have to see what's that's all about. Thank you Eric. I really appreciate your help.

[kwalk20]

Thank you Uwe! I truly appreciate everything. I know you know your stuff, but I was trying to do what seemed easier first. I am sooo scared of getting into the timing. Yikes! But I was willing to go for it if I had to. This machine is very intimidating and so much different than a home sewing machine. Being that I know nothing about it's mechanics, I'm so afraid that I could mess something up and cause worse problems so I'm just trying to be cautious and seek the advice of you seasoned pros first because I'm playing by ear. I haven't a clue. But it is nice once you get something done and just tinkering/ trying helps you understand better. I'm taking your advice and going section by section. Although I read the book that came with mine, nothing is better than being interactive. Thank you again and I'll be posting back in here because now, it seems, that I'm hearing a slight knocking noise that wasn't there before trying to remove "The Trouble." Thanks guys!!! Truly!

[gottaknow]

If by chance you moved that positioning finger out too far, they can sometimes hit the feed driving arm that sits just next to it. Also, changing your tension can make your check spring actually do what it's supposed to and travel all the way down to its stop. This can produce a clicking noise as your take up lever drops down and the thread goes slack slightly. There are many things that can make odd noises in a machine. New mechanics tend to overreact and then get in over their heads. I use these for teaching moments. My logic from what I know, is that you moved the positioning finger and then your tension. That's where you start looking. The more you become familiar with your machine, the ability to solve problems will greatly increase.

Regards, Eric