Keeping What You Have

[thunter9]

i have a adler 30-70 with a cluch motor in near newish condition and i think i want a cylinder arm walking foot tripple feed shuttle hook with reverse. and a salvo motor want to sew russet 8 oz three thicknesses how light a thread will a shuttle take without any problems can i spin it with z99 . would i lose much fuctionality by changing over to the cylinder other than the swivel head and getting down into the toe box

[Uwe]

If the swivel head and the super thin and long cylinder arm are not important to you, a patcher is not the right machine for you. (Did you buy it off Omaha Craigslist a few months back? If so - I want it, that machine was gorgeous!)

A normal cylinder arm sewing machine with unison feed is a very different animal from a patcher, much better suited to general leather work unless you actually want to repair shoes and such.

But sewing 24oz worth of leather with very thin thread is asking for trouble because there are really no machines that do both well at the same time. Most machines that can handle 24 oz of leather without choking are a NOT designed to sew with thin thread.

Attempting to sew very thin thread with big 441 or 205 class cylinder arm machines has already been discussed in several other threads. Do a search and read up on those. The discussion essentially boils down to this: to cover both very thick leather and very thin tread, you need two machines, and you can't do both at once.

[Wizcrafts]

To add to what Uwe said, bonded nylon thread is a combination of several monofilamint strands that are twisted and bonded together. The overall strength of the resulting bonded package is a known factor that is available in various thread size charts, including this needle and thread size chart. You can look at the tensile strength for each listed size of thread and make your own determinations about which size will work best for your various sewing jobs.

For example, #69 (T70) bonded nylon thread has a tensile (breaking) strength of about 11 pounds of pull. That is about what a medium sized bass might exert when you try to reel him in and he is fighting you. If your line has too little tensile strength the fish may break it and swim away. But, it was easier to cast because of its light weight and you got more yards on the spool you bought that a heavier line that had less thread for the same price. This is false economy.

So, while a compound (triple) feed walking foot machine is rated at a guaranteed maximum thickness of 3/8 inch, or 10mm, and that machine can be fitted with a #18 needle, and that needle threaded with 11 pound test #69 bonded nylon thread, three 8 ounces pieces of veg-tan leather might have more flex force than the thread can withstand. A couple of bends in the wrong direction, or a sharp fold may break the thread and let the project fall apart.

My shop has several sewing machines that do different jobs, based on their best capacities, not their worst. I don't sew 24 ounces of leather, Biothane, or webbing on my upholstery grade walking foot machines. I use my Cowboy CB4500, or my buddy's Cobra Class 4. I don't even consider using #69 thread in those machines, even though it "can be done." Rather, I'll use #277 bonded thread, with a #25 needle to sew 3/8 inch of dense leather or webbing. This size of thread has 44 pounds breaking strength, per stitch. This is inline with the thickness and possible stresses that belt, case, sheath, strap or holster is likely to encounter.

A leather crafter who owns sewing machines may eventually go into the repairing things business. Those things may include zippers, patches, cuffs, hems, purses, backpacks, holsters, seats, saddles and more. If you already own a patching machine and you can't say you will never get into doing repairs, do not get rid of that machine if it works. If it needs a little tweaking, pay someone to tweak it. Repairs that call for a patcher are innumerable! I use my patchers almost every day for some job that cannot be sewn on the other machines.

When the thickness exceeds the patcher's ability to feed and sew it, I move the work to a walking foot machine. I sew patches onto bikers' vests all the time. I sew the backs and shoulders on a flatbed walking foot machine, then move it to a patcher to sew over pockets, or on sleeves of jackets.

Of course, if you are unhappy with your Adler patcher, Uwe or I will be happy to give it a new home.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Wizcrafts

[Darren Brosowski]

LOL

While I am a dealer I often think the best advice I can give any customer is to keep the machines you have if they do a particular job and not trade them for an upgraded machine.

For heavy work a CB4500/441 type is the way to go but there is no reason not to have 4 or 5 other machines in your shop.

If the shop isn't big enough then get the hammer and nails out.....

[Constabulary]

Agree - you never have enough sewing machines . Sooner or later you start thinking "oh -I could use that one too..." though you don´t need right now but it´s nice to have when the demand tuns up. I once thought I just need one machine and I now have 6 machines and I still have some in my mind that I (sooner or later) could use. Sound stupid but thats how goes. Sooner or later you will regret that you have sold a certain machine.

[dikman]

Further to Wiz's fishing analogy, when I got into fishing many, many years ago I soon learned that there is no one rod/reel for all occasions and ended up building several different style of rods. Being a relative newbie to industrial sewing machines, I spent a lot of time on the Singer post machine that I was given and slowly realised that it was designed for a fairly specific type of sewing, and no matter how much I wanted it to do heavier leather it simply wasn't going to work! I knew I would need another machine, but there was no way I was going to get rid of the one I had. Like the fishing rods, I knew that I would need different machines for different jobs and also knew that if I already had a good machine I'd be pretty stupid to get rid of it.

So once you get a good machine, unless you absolutely have to don't get rid of it!!!

The down side, unfortunately, is that they take up room so, as Darren said, I got out the hammer and nails (or in this case the impact driver and angle grinder!).