Funny/sad Story About Tandy Leather...

[Dougster]

I'm simply applying a statistical model to a common behavior and concluding that there is no ethical misconduct in accepting a windfall just as there is no ethical misconduct by foregoing overcharges --- overcharges you don't know about, and I can assure you we all have a lot more of those than we know.

I'm sure that, at some level, all of those overs and unders you're not aware of do balance themselves out.

I have a problem with the ones you *do* know about though. Those aren't balanced by the ones that you *don't* know about. I believe that if you're going to (try to) be ethical, you have to either accept all overs and unders, or reject all overs and unders. That is, if you challenge the overcharges that you know about, you have to challenge the undercharges that you know about. Put a different way, I believe that if you take the money when you know they undercharge, you have to give the money when you know they overcharge. In reality, I personally think the only proper way to deal with it is to point it out when you see it happen.

Side story: I bought a motocross bike trailer some years ago. They asked for an amount. I agreed, and then the guy threw in a couple extra pieces. I went to the bank and got cash out for them. I decided to get an extra twenty bucks for the extra parts. When I handed over the money, the guy's wife counted it. He asked if it was the original amount and she said yes. I looked at her and could tell that she knew there was extra. It was fascinating to see how she reacted. In that moment, I decided that I would not buy any of the other items they had for sale. I sometimes wonder if she even told her husband about it or whether she pocketed the extra twenty...

To tie back into the original subject, I would have been much happier if the manager had acknowledged the mistake and had me pay the difference directly, instead of acknowledging the mistake, telling me not to worry about it, and then adding the difference into the next transaction.

[raysouth]

WOW! So many opinions about something that should be easy to understand by doing what is right. As the saying goes, everyone has one, but usually not in reference to opinions.

Simple for me. If I catch and undercharge at the store or when I return home and check my receipt, I simply show the folks where the problem was and I pay for the due balance or return the unpaid merchandise.

If overcharged, I follow the same principal and expect the store to refund the overcharge.

Seems that here are many differing opinions as to how such a simple process should be corrected.

I don't feel that there are any excuses that can excuse anything other than correcting the situation and paying for what we purchase and receiving refunds when we are overcharged.

Sales clerks are no different than we are, good days and bad days so not a reason that should make the transaction different than what it was supposed to be. When I shop for items and see what they cost, I simply pay the price if I want the item and leave it if I think I can do without it or priced higher than I wish to pay.

If you have ever experienced the selling end of a situation, you certainly want to receive your price and prevent overcharging a customer that you hope will continue to do business with you.

I suppose a good way to be is simply, let your conscience be your guide.

God Bless.

Ray

[WinterBear]

Haven't seen you in a while raysouth, hello.

Back on topic, here's my two cents---if the customer is undercharged, it is the seller's fault--they undercharged you through their mistake. You were rung up, paid the price you were told, took your items and left. There was no falsity on your part. And when the manager noticed it, they should have never been short with you---it was the manager's fault--they or their employees rung it up wrong. You hadn't altered the price tags, changed the markings for the square footage, passed a counterfeit giftcard or coupon--you didn't do anything to make the price come up less than it should be---so not your fault, and you weren't defrauding the store. That being said, it was quite likely illegal for the manager, and certainly unethical, to charge you the money the next visit. The manager should have never done that.

[NVLeatherWorx]

And there, WinterBear, has nailed the whole thing on the head. The clerk/manager who rang up the transaction is solely at fault for the whole thing, period. Adding a charge to any future transaction that is based on their mistake is just flat bad business and, I am sure, would violate some laws out there. Tandy is no different than any other business out there, they have all of these "mistakes" programmed into the business model and accounting and that is a fact. Those of you who have a business should have the same thing factored into your operations. There are always things coming up short, whether it is an item that has been shoplifted or a clerk gives back more change than they should have, every business has something like this happen and none of us are any different. Knowing that, is it in your best interest the next time you see that customer that you gave too much change back to or just missed ringing up a smaller item only to charge them for it or ask for it to be returned? The answer is NO! The error was made and you suck it up, just make sure that everyone pays better attention from that moment forward. The manager in question regarding the OP was dead wrong and should have actually been fired for their actions; I know that if I were the one over this person they would have been gone for that. These types of actions bring a very negative light on the business as a whole (as found within the contents of this entire topic) and that negative light is what will create a firestorm of public lashings and loss of business, and that all happens company wide, not just the local store level.

[Reegesc]

Side story: I bought a motocross bike trailer some years ago. They asked for an amount. I agreed, and then the guy threw in a couple extra pieces. I went to the bank and got cash out for them. I decided to get an extra twenty bucks for the extra parts. When I handed over the money, the guy's wife counted it. He asked if it was the original amount and she said yes. I looked at her and could tell that she knew there was extra. It was fascinating to see how she reacted. In that moment, I decided that I would not buy any of the other items they had for sale. I sometimes wonder if she even told her husband about it or whether she pocketed the extra twenty...

Ha, so you overcharged yourself and were shortchanged on acknowledgement of your generosity. Man, that's a full circle underage/overage transaction Geez. Just curious, why didn't you say something, to the Husband at any rate if for no other reason than to demonstrate you appreciated his generosity? As it stood, both of you were shortchanged on being good guys.

You make a good point on overages though, that all things equal, intervening in an overage that's noticed is a double dip with nonintervention of an undercharge. I see your point, that if you isolate all observed overcharges and undercharges, you either have to be all in or completely out. Thinking this through a bit more, however, that doesn't take into account the seller's side of the equation, i.e., their actions on the observed errors. I think it's fair to say that at the register you would expect fair play 99% of the time (your Tandy experience being the outlier). But the dynamic is quite a bit different on the seller side.

Whereas consumers are pretty much limited to observing these errors at the register and to a much lesser degree scrutinizing their sales receipt on the way to their auto, sellers have multiple reviews through their accounting systems and procedures. It's estimated that 5% of scans are in error and overcharges are upwards of $2.5B annually. So in the case of the seller, they discover these errors more frequently than consumers after the fact with aggregated systems and accounting information. I think that once it's removed from the register and is being examined analytically, the behavior is going to be a double dip and to take the windfall. And if true, then the balance would be the consumer doing the same.

What do you think?

Edited February 17, 2016 by cseeger

[Reegesc]

WOW! So many opinions about something that should be easy to understand by doing what is right.

~sigh~

[Dougster]

Just curious, why didn't you say something, to the Husband at any rate if for no other reason than to demonstrate you appreciated his generosity?

I didn't think there was anything to gain at that point. Maybe it's going to make her look bad. Maybe he's going to learn something he might not have wanted to know. Maybe I would have learned that he was like her. No matter, I had made my decision at that point and had no need to do anything else but say thank you, shake his hand, and drive away...

[Art]

You are the Devil Dougster, the snake. You tempted Woman and she bit your twenty dollar apple. Get thee out Satan.

Art

[fasn8ya]

I never said they were reasonably priced haha! Just that Tandy sells them.

I think Tandy relies on their monopolization of the leathercraft market. Even though people who are experienced in the field know about Barry King, Leatherwranglers, Chuck Smith, Bob Beard, Sheridan Leather, Springfield Leather, Ohio Travel Bag, Beylors, Hide House, Wicket & Craig, Horween, Herman & Oak etc, the beginner and the casual hobbyist only know about Tandy. They think Tandy is the only place that sells leather, leather working tools, hardware, and so on. So they pay those prices because they don't know that there are other places with the same or similar products (sometimes far superior products) at more reasonable costs. We do have a lot of businesses that buy from us, but it's usually more specialty items that aren't readily available from other companies.

Anyway, I appreciate what you wrote and I understand and agree with your opinion.

Thanks for the list of the many Tandy alternatives! Hadn't heard of some of them. Happen to live a few miles from a local Tandy so sometimes its just convenience that sends me there. Have ordered a couple of times with Springfield and am very pleased. Their shipping rate is very reasonable also.

[jrny4wrd]

On February 9, 2016 at 0:22 AM, CastlesCustomLeather said:

I totally agree with everything you've said. Prices have gone way up while quality has gone way down. It's sad, but Tandy has turned into a corporation. No longer are they the same small town type of store where everyone is friends and it's all about the customer's happiness with their shopping experience and the products they buy. I used to work in manufacturing and I can rarely get any of the shops I worked for or did business with to buy from Tandy. They can find the same hardware or Fiebing's products or similar tools at much cheaper prices from other places. I work for Tandy and even I don't use their products that often. If you want to see how much the quality has gone down, just compare a Craftool stamp from 30 years ago to a new one. That's why people pay so much for the vintage Craftools. And I don't even mean the discontinued ones. People will pay twice as much for a used vintage Craftool even though they can get the same stamp brand new from Tandy.

The only thing I will say though, is even though some of the tools have gone down in quality, there is a lifetime warranty on all tools. If they break from normal wear and tear or are defective in any way, you can just bring it or send it to your local Tandy and they will replace it for free. And also, Tanddy does sell solid brass double cap rivets. They are item numbers 1379-11, 1381-11, and 1383-11. They also come in solid brass nickel plated.

Sure wish there was some size between the medium and large.