Pleated Tuck And Roll Motorcycle Seat

[2WheelSteel]

Hey guys,

I've been reading up on the forums for a while now and finally joined to ask a few questions that I could not find the answers to.

I am looking to build a medium to dark brown pleated tuck and roll leather motorcycle seat. (See examples attached)

My questions pertain to the type and thickness of leather and the sewing machine needed to make this seat.

I have been researching leather types and am a little overwhelmed with all of the options. I really like the inconsistency of brown oil tanned leather. I am not sure if this will be ideal for a motorcycle however. Will the oil rub off on my pants? Will it hold up under use? I looked at all the upholstery grade leather and it seems too shiny and consistent in texture and appearance. Should I use chrome tanned, oil tanned, aniline died, wax, urethane top coat? It seems to me like 3-4 oz will be the max thickness that I can use and still be able to pleat.

Second subject is the type of machine. I understand that I will be needing a walking foot compound feed machine with #138? thread? Does this sound correct? I know that this is a very broad question that has many answers based on opinions, but where should I start in terms of manufacture and model for a machine that can accomplish the seats below?

Thanks in advance for the help!
Evan

[2WheelSteel]

I recently visited Tany's Leather in Union City and San Mateo and sorted through a few types of leather that I liked.

In the attached image:

1. Upholstery Leather (3-4 oz)
2. Nomad Oily Side Leather, pull-up (2-3oz)
3. Kodiak Oily Side Leather, (4-5oz) (seemed much too thick)

Also found what they call "utility sides" that are 3-4 oz. This seemed like a good candidate but they only had one piece that was not in good shape.

Edited January 7, 2016 by 2WheelSteel

[eglideride]

www.sailrite.com

they have a video for this type of seat- in the "how to" section...should be exactly what you are looking for

[2WheelSteel]

www.sailrite.com

they have a video for this type of seat- in the "how to" section...should be exactly what you are looking for

This is great, thank you. Very detailed on the process.

However, this does not show the leather thickness, tanning type, or machine used to sew.

[Art]

Anything you want in Chrome Tan should be in the 3-4 oz range, for veg tan, 3 oz or so is going to be max for rolled and pleated. That doesn't mean you can't deviate from the above, but you will have to do some test pieces. When doing something new, do testing if you can. As for machines, any medium duty upholstery or shoe machine will do the work you want. The Singer 111, 211, 153-101,2,3, Cowboy CB-227R Pfaff 335 or anything of the medium ilk will accomplish what you want. I would opt for the cylinder arm machines over the flat bed as the cylinder arm is more versatile, however either will do the job. There are a bazillion machines of the medium class, trim shops tend to be big on flat beds, but they don't usually do purses, bags, and things like that

Art

[TinkerTailor]

Btw, the last pick is the only true tuck and roll. The first three could be accomplished with thicker leather, just skiving the edges to roll them as the parallel lines are just a topstitch.

As far as leather type, Take a piece of white paper and buff the leather to see if it rubs off, the lesser the betterer. Careful with oily type leathers. I have some chrome tanned hot stuffed leather that is full of waxes, and does not rub off. I also have some HB-foot redwing oiltan boot leather that rubs real bad.

Horween has some nice stuff that would work for you.

Horween has a great chart that lists all the details of their leathers. There are a couple waterproof ones that fit the bill, I would use buccaneer(waterproof chromexcel) or kudu waxy myself..http://www.thetanneryrow.com/products/kudu-waxy

http://horween.com/leathers/full-tannage-list/

Plus Horween, and especially chromexcel are big enough brand names (especially with hipsters) that it is easier to up the product price to cover the leather cost.

Edited January 8, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[2WheelSteel]

Anything you want in Chrome Tan should be in the 3-4 oz range, for veg tan, 3 oz or so is going to be max for rolled and pleated. That doesn't mean you can't deviate from the above, but you will have to do some test pieces. When doing something new, do testing if you can. As for machines, any medium duty upholstery or shoe machine will do the work you want. The Singer 111, 211, 153-101,2,3, Cowboy CB-227R Pfaff 335 or anything of the medium ilk will accomplish what you want. I would opt for the cylinder arm machines over the flat bed as the cylinder arm is more versatile, however either will do the job. There are a bazillion machines of the medium class, trim shops tend to be big on flat beds, but they don't usually do purses, bags, and things like that

Art

Awesome, thanks!

Btw, the last pick is the only true tuck and roll. The first three could be accomplished with thicker leather, just skiving the edges to roll them as the parallel lines are just a topstitch.

As far as leather type, Take a piece of white paper and buff the leather to see if it rubs off, the lesser the betterer. Careful with oily type leathers. I have some chrome tanned hot stuffed leather that is full of waxes, and does not rub off. I also have some HB-foot redwing oiltan boot leather that rubs real bad.

Horween has some nice stuff that would work for you.

Horween has a great chart that lists all the details of their leathers. There are a couple waterproof ones that fit the bill, I would use buccaneer(waterproof chromexcel) or kudu waxy myself..http://www.thetanneryrow.com/products/kudu-waxy

http://horween.com/leathers/full-tannage-list/

Plus Horween, and especially chromexcel are big enough brand names (especially with hipsters) that it is easier to up the product price to cover the leather cost.

Yeah, I think I prefer a tuck and roll. Chromexcel looks promising. Would you recommend the 2-3 oz fronts or 3.5-4 sides?

[l2bravo]

2Wheel, I am familiar with the Tandy leathers you reference. The Nomad and Kodiak are really nice leathers, but I wouldn't use them for a seat. They just aren't the right type of leather. I would look at the "motorcycle sides", that are black. The Chromexcel the other guys reccomended is really really nice.

As for the machine. Yes there are lot's of options, many of which will work. What I can tell you is this; get yourself a ton of cheap leather, and prepare to be patient.

Have you ever done any leather work?

Have you ever sewn?

Have you ever done any pattern work?

If the answer is no to any of these, I am just being kind when I tell you that you have a lot of work ahead of you.

I have been doing leather work for 8 or so months. I've done a lot of work, a lot, and I am decent at best.

I am not trying to dash your dreams, or be discouraging at all! This is a great craft, and very enjoyable. I'm just saying, don't expect to be whipping out masterpieces in a few weeks. In other words, realistic expectations.

[Wizcrafts]

When you go to or contact a leather supplier for the seat leather, ask or search for a large enough weatherproof piece that has plenty of stretch and give. Some leathers are easier to stretch than others. A stretchy piece will make this a lot easier to accomplish. The thickness will have an effect of the stretch. If there is a thinner piece that looks right and stretches nicely, buy it instead of a thicker cut. Your best hope is to find a cut than is no more than 3 to 4 ounces thickness.

If you go to a Tandy Leather store, ask the sales person to test skive the flesh side on your desired cut of leather with one of the Tandy hand skiving tools (with a razor blade). If the skiver tool is able to remove most of the flesh side, without cutting through the top grain, it makes for better folded seams and finished edges. You will have to teach yourself how to use this tool without destroying the leather. Professionals have a motor driven round blade skiving machine to remove flesh material when seams and edges need to be thinned for assembly or appearance.

[2WheelSteel]

2Wheel, I am familiar with the Tandy leathers you reference. The Nomad and Kodiak are really nice leathers, but I wouldn't use them for a seat. They just aren't the right type of leather. I would look at the "motorcycle sides", that are black. The Chromexcel the other guys reccomended is really really nice.

As for the machine. Yes there are lot's of options, many of which will work. What I can tell you is this; get yourself a ton of cheap leather, and prepare to be patient.

Have you ever done any leather work?

Have you ever sewn?

Have you ever done any pattern work?

If the answer is no to any of these, I am just being kind when I tell you that you have a lot of work ahead of you.

I have been doing leather work for 8 or so months. I've done a lot of work, a lot, and I am decent at best.

I am not trying to dash your dreams, or be discouraging at all! This is a great craft, and very enjoyable. I'm just saying, don't expect to be whipping out masterpieces in a few weeks. In other words, realistic expectations.

First time doing leather work, sewing. I am a packaging designer by trade so I am very familiar with patterns. Completely understand that what I am trying to do requires experience and skill. Realistically, I will probably have someone sew the seat for me for this project. None the less, I still want to get into this craft. I am looking for a hobby trade to get me into the custom motorcycle scene. Leatherworkers who specialize in custom moto seats and bags are hard to come by, at least with my experience in the SF bay area. So I thought this would be a great opportunity. When you say nomad is not the right type of leather, why not? Just trying to learn.

When you go to or contact a leather supplier for the seat leather, ask or search for a large enough weatherproof piece that has plenty of stretch and give. Some leathers are easier to stretch than others. A stretchy piece will make this a lot easier to accomplish. The thickness will have an effect of the stretch. If there is a thinner piece that looks right and stretches nicely, buy it instead of a thicker cut. Your best hope is to find a cut than is no more than 3 to 4 ounces thickness.

If you go to a Tandy Leather store, ask the sales person to test skive the flesh side on your desired cut of leather with one of the Tandy hand skiving tools (with a razor blade). If the skiver tool is able to remove most of the flesh side, without cutting through the top grain, it makes for better folded seams and finished edges. You will have to teach yourself how to use this tool without destroying the leather. Professionals have a motor driven round blade skiving machine to remove flesh material when seams and edges need to be thinned for assembly or appearance.

Stretchy, 3-4 oz, skive test. Got it! Thanks!

[2WheelSteel]

Another update:
Found a leather supplier by the name of Relicate Custom Leather. They offer a line called MotoCUTS. MotoCUTS start as 1/2 hides that are then cut to length per linear inch. Width averages 28" - 35". They charge $5-6 per linear inch. My seat is roughly 25" x 8", so thats around $150. Actually, I will need more to account for pleating shrinkage. Not much cheaper than buying a whole hide of upholstery leather... I do however really like the color and surface finish. Talked with one of their reps and the leather is aniline dyed and then finished with a wax and urethane topcoat 1-1.2mm so I guess thats around 3oz? Just got a few swatches in the mail. I think I like the dark cafe roaster best.

[l2bravo]

2 Wheel, I realize "tone" is hard to read at times, and can be really difficult to interpret. I really was not trying to be rude in any way, and apologize if it came out that way.

The pattern part; My mom used to sew her hands off. She was a seamstress, and had her own biz, sewing little girls dresses/brides maids dresses, and the like. I had zero understanding or respect for what all she did.

I build gun stuff, mainly shotgun shell pouches. I have about 5 working, really good patterns, that I came up with myself. The leather I burned even trying to gain an understanding of that is crazy. So when I said "be patient", that was just me trying to explain my tidal wave of sucking, as I got started.

The Nomad is good leather. Really nice in fact. I don't ride bikes, but know a ton of guys who do. The nomad is an oily leather. While it has a good temper, and good outdoor properties, it probably isn't what you want under you. There may be some transfer to your pants, but at the least, it will most likely have a tacky feel as you move on the seat. I also think it'll be a bit thin, and may not last long to the abrasion and stretching.

It is always nice to be able to see leather in person. As you get some experience, and some contacts built, you will be better off ordering stuff online, or where you can't see them. Tandy makes what they call their "Motorcycle sides". It is a black "chap" type leather, that is treated for heavy outdoor use. It is about a 4 oz. leather, that is pretty decent stuff, and should be what I would think is perfect for what you are wanting. It has a little "slicker" finish to it as well.

Lastly, I will tell you that there are some amazingly talented guys here, and they have always been more than willing to help at every turn. Wiz should be at the front of your list, of guys that know what they are doing and talking about. The guy's extremly helpful and kind personality, is the only thing that exceeds his skill. He's been aweful nice to me. Good luck, and ask away.

Edited January 13, 2016 by l2bravo

[l2bravo]

Another update:

Found a leather supplier by the name of Relicate Custom Leather. They offer a line called MotoCUTS. MotoCUTS start as 1/2 hides that are then cut to length per linear inch. Width averages 28" - 35". They charge $5-6 per linear inch. My seat is roughly 25" x 8", so thats around $150. Actually, I will need more to account for pleating shrinkage. Not much cheaper than buying a whole hide of upholstery leather... I do however really like the color and surface finish. Talked with one of their reps and the leather is aniline dyed and then finished with a wax and urethane topcoat 1-1.2mm so I guess thats around 3oz? Just got a few swatches in the mail. I think I like the dark cafe roaster best.

Screen Shot 2016-01-12 at 10.08.23 PM.png

Screen Shot 2016-01-12 at 10.27.16 PM.png

Relicate_MotoCUTS_sizing.jpg

Wait a minute.....These guys want to charge you $150 for an 8x25 piece of leather?????? Absolutely not! I don't care what kind of leather that is, that is stupid high!!!! You want advice?? Run....the other way...fast.

[Wizcrafts]

I often see leathers similar to that selling for between $4 to $8 per square FOOT (144 Sq inches!) for sides. Entire sides of this type of leather can be purchased for $100 to $160. You should seriously check out Springfield Leather, Thoroughbred Leather, Maverick Leather, The Hide House, Weaver Leather, etc, etc.

[2WheelSteel]

I2bravo, no worries! I didn't take as rude at all.

You bring up a good point about the tack that I did not think about. I periodically shift on my seat for comfort and leverage, so I can see sticking to the seat being very annoying.

$150 being a piece 25" x 28-35". But you are right, it is way too expensive.

Wizcrafts, thanks for the recommendations. I think I might have to do a day trip to go check out Maverick Leather and The Hide House since they are not too far.

[l2bravo]

2Wheel, I just ordered some exotic stuff from Maverick, and can tell you that they are classy people to deal with. Very helpful, and very decent. I haven't ordered from Hide House yet, but they too have a lot of support here, and a good reputation as well. I'd fear neither in any way. The other guys......uh no. Keep us posted.

[Wizcrafts]

I have used black biker sides from Springfield leather for seats, chaps, bags and biker accessories. I've had no problems or complaints.