How Would You Handle This Vegan

[Mike516]

I just made my 2016 post on a dog forum I belong to showing my collars.

This lady replies and asks, do I make pleather items because she's an "ethical vegan".

I don't want to get nasty with her, but I think she isn't looking to buy a pleather collar, she likely just wanted to turn off potential customers by pointing out I use cowhide.

I already said pleather can be toxic to animals, but I feel like I want to say more. Would you all let this go and just move on, or would you take this further?

I'm pretty aggravated about this but beyond what I already did I don't know what else to do.

[Dwight]

I have no experience with pleather, . . . but I would not hesitate for one instant: getting together the facts and figures about the manufacture of pleather, it's contents, it's toxicity, . . . as well as pointing out that the leather most of us use is a by product of meat growers, . . . and by using the "cast off's" of another industry, we are indeed being better stewards of the planet.

But then again, . . . she'd a nut case, . . . and will most likely twist and spin the whole topic until you become Attila the Hun / Jeffery Dahmer.

Good luck.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Mike516]

That's what I'm afraid of. I have no intention of becoming an expert on something like pleather, so I don't want to get into a debate with someone who feels the need to make passive aggressive comments veiled as interest. I don't know how bat$41t crazy she is. And I don't want to come across as an a-hole either. I'm stumped.

[TinkerTailor]

Say this:

"I work in the materials that are traditionally used for dog collars, leather and metal, and have been proven for centuries as the most durable option available. I do not work in synthetic materials, as their production is harmful to the environment. There are less durable vegan options available on the market in canvas and other natural materials, however I am not set up to deal with these materials at this time. Thank you for your inquiry"

[Mike516]

Say this:

"I work in the materials that are traditionally used for dog collars, leather and metal, and have been proven for centuries as the most durable option available. I do not work in synthetic materials, as their production is harmful to the environment. There are less durable vegan options available on the market in canvas and other natural materials, however I am not set up to deal with these materials at this time. Thank you for your inquiry"

This is perfect. I replaced my reply to her with this, thank you. Let's see if she has something to say about it.

[byggyns]

I'd point out that if she was such an "ethical vegan" she should not support the synthetic processes needed to make the imitation leather products she wants, and the vitamins she has to take in order to not die of malnutrition as a vegan. Both require large industrial facilities that use mined / drilled raw materials.

Veganism is pretty idiotic. I can say vegitarianism has at least some basis in reality (still think it's dumb), but healthy veganism is only possible with modern synthetic industrial nutrition supplements.

[Mike516]

I believe she only posted to point out her moral superiority and by doing so try and put people off my product. Arguing with her is going to be unproductive and even if I win an argument, I will still lose.

The days of speaking your mind end when you start a business. People get offended by everything these days, I can only imagine the outrage starting an argument with a nutcase, forget about the unprofessionalism.

No, I have to try and be as nice as possible without seeming like I am being patronizing. I have a gift for sarcasm but that won't work either. If even one person sees through it, I'll be screwed.

[TinkerTailor]

This is perfect. I replaced my reply to her with this, thank you. Let's see if she has something to say about it.

No prob.

You are right, while this could be a genuine inquiry, it could be a setup and is outside the scope of your business anyways. No need to provoke.

I am also a sarcastic ass, I even frequently wear a shirt that says "Sarcasm is just one of the services i offer"

I have learned, as have you it seems, that sarcasm can turn around and bite you real bad if used in print. You no longer have the ability to give the sly grin and careful intonation that makes it funny in person......

Edited January 15, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[Mike516]

Once it's in print, it's hard to say you didn't say it. Once it's in print on the interwebs, you're stuck with it forever.

Like you say. sarcasm is best in person anyway. Not always funny though, even with the sly grin. It really depends on your position in the convo I suppose.

My wife tells me if I'm sarcastic all the time, no one will ever take me seriously. I pointed out that she was thinking of the boy who cried wolf. She thanked me for clearing that up, but I could swear I heard her roll her eyes when she said it.

[billybopp]

Reminds me of the old question: You go to a party, and there are two vegans in the crowd. How do you know which ones they are?

THEY'LL FREAKIN' TELL YOU.

Bill

[Mike516]

Reminds me of the old question: You go to a party, and there are two vegans in the crowd. How do you know which ones they are?

THEY'LL FREAKIN' TELL YOU.

Bill

LOL!

Maybe she even just decided to become one and she's taking any chance to let people know.

[NVLeatherWorx]

Well now, looks like you have taken the high road here and put yourself in the Superiority seat now. There is a time and a place for every battle but being able to choose when, and where, is the more important thing here. I too believe that she was just trying to spawn a conversation that she hoped would get into the "knocking her way of life" (albeit extremely shortend due to her selected lifestyle choices) which would ultimately cause you the most damage. Being the bigger person without beating your chest (in public) is the way to go.

Keep us posted if you ever get a response out of her though, I would like to see where she goes with it from your reply.

[JRedding]

You did the right thing, what is someone with beliefs like that doing dragging a dog around on a leash ? What about his rights ? How would she like to be on a leash ? BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, a lot like watching people come here to protest the oil and gas industry, nobody shows up riding their bike.

[NVLeatherWorx]

Same as those preachy you know what's that are all about saving the environment and maintaining water clarity in high mountain lakes by pushing to have legislation enacted that limits what you can drive, the size and type of motor that your boat can have, or even limiting your access to certain areas because the pollution has such a negative impact on the eco-system yet every damn one of them drives an SUV and their carbon footprint would make King Kong's footprint look like yours did on your birth certificate. Holier than thou bull$#&*er's they are. Do as I do but I am going to do as I damn well want. Soapbox rant over.

[Mike516]

Yea I agree with all the points here. A lot of hypocrites wanting to push their own beliefs on others. But as soon as you say something like "why don't you have a hamburger and get over yourself", they have a conniption. But I believe in hamburgers. Why are my beliefs any less important than theirs? What ever happened to the axiom "live and let live"? I make leather stuff. Why can't they just let me make a living without throwing their vegan ism at me?

I will post if she replies, but it seems like it was just a troll post.

[Halitech]

They think they are the only ones out to save the planet but they fail to realize, people are going to eat meat no matter what they do and as Dwight said, us making leather products from the skin makes us better stewards of the earth instead of throwing it in the waste. They think they are better because no living animal gets killed by what they do however, they fail to see what goes into the production of their vegan leather.

Take the high road with them and don't let them drag you down to their level, that is what they are trying to do

[TheModifier]

After reading the replies, I did a quick goolge and found THIS article. I thought it might be somewhat educational for some.

[Mike516]

That's a great article. I also googled this and found contradictory articles depending in which side of the fence the author was on.

One side argued that leather was a bi-product of the meat industry, and if we don't use it it will go to waste. The other side says that leather as a resource is a lot more valuable than meat, so cows are raised just for their leather and the meat is thrown away. The first side says that is bunk because leather accounts for 1% of the cow market so raising cows just for their skin would be counter-productive.

And round and round it goes. It's enough to make your head explode.

There is no way I'm getting into an argument with someone who can just recite the available articles that support her side. I can contradict every one of her points, but it's sort of like once someone says "yes you did", you can claim "no I didn't" but it makes you sound petulant. So instead of giving her ammunition, I matter of factly stated, as suggested by TinkerTailor, the undeniable fact that I don't use pleather because its manufacture is bad for the environment, and left it at that (I paraphrase). Anyone who looks up 'making pleather' or the like will see that this is a reasonable statement even if the vegan wants to argue the point.

[TinkerTailor]

The Movie PCU has a great scene where the "protest of the week" in the university quad is against eating meat. Thus is the result:

If this post breaks the rules, so be it. It is post 666 for me...........

Edited January 18, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[eglideride]

Old saying in these parts: "Don't wrestle with a pig. You both get muddy, and the pig likes it."

[WinterBear]

"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience". George Carlin

[Kulafarmer]

I just made my 2016 post on a dog forum I belong to showing my collars.

This lady replies and asks, do I make pleather items because she's an "ethical vegan".

I don't want to get nasty with her, but I think she isn't looking to buy a pleather collar, she likely just wanted to turn off potential customers by pointing out I use cowhide.

I already said pleather can be toxic to animals, but I feel like I want to say more. Would you all let this go and just move on, or would you take this further?

I'm pretty aggravated about this but beyond what I already did I don't know what else to do.

Id tell her i use dog hide

[byggyns]

"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience". George Carlin

that was actually Mark Twain; Carlin quoted it well.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/539027-never-argue-with-stupid-people-they-will-drag-you-down

To follow up on another joke someone told here:

If someone is a vegan and into crossfit, which do they tell you about first when you meet them?

[raysouth]

What an issue.

I am a vegetarian and at times I say vegan, but still make leather goods and enjoy the craft.

All a personal preference and to each his own. I do not attempt to sway anyone to my way of thinking and if eating meat is what they want to do, so be it. I have no problem either way.

Just do whatever it is that makes you comfortable, enjoy every moment of your life while you are able as we all die one day and the opinions become moot.

I have not been a vegetarian my entire life, just a few years, 30 or so, and find that I enjoy vegetables very much. Even attempt to grow a few but not a pro gardner either, but have fun doing it. Like the $25.00 tomato I may get. lol.

I love David's response above, (eglideride).

God Bless you all.

Ray

[mlapaglia]

Never argue with a fool. It brings you down to their level and they will beat you with experience.