Belt Leather Cracking At Buckle Fold - How To Eliminate It?

[CustomDoug]

I'm making belts from 8/9 oz. and it's cracking the top surface of the leather at the buckle area - I assume because of the thickness. Do you guys usually skive the leather at the buckle's tongue area?

[TinkerTailor]

Do one, two or all three of the following, and it should help:

1: yes, skive the backside.

2: wet form the fold.

3: 2-3 days before folding, neetsfoot oil the leather

[CustomDoug]

I'll give those a try. Thanks!

[TinkerTailor]

Doesn't have to be neetsfoot, btw, just some of your favourite conditioner to ensure the leather is not dry and the fibers slide against each other nice when you bend it. Waiting a couple days gives the conditioner time to chooch and even out. It also makes it easier to wet the leather to bend it.

[CustomDoug]

ok, got it. and umm... I don't suppose there's anything I can do about the cracked leather once it's there, right? I have some Pecards conditioner that I can use, any chance it'll visibly 'heal' the small cracks? I just skived the area as suggested and the cracks are still quite visible on the front at the bend area (not that I bent it very tight though, just checked loosely). Will the area be weak? The cracks look to be just the top surface, but are unsightly if nothing else. btw, this is a 3/4" wide strap of 8/9oz (now skived down at that area).

[thekid77]

I'm making belts from 8/9 oz. and it's cracking the top surface of the leather at the buckle area - I assume because of the thickness. Do you guys usually skive the leather at the buckle's tongue area?

Like Tinker said, just make sure that the area being folded is wet.......the leather will not crack on you. I recently made a halter.......18 different folds in 8/9 oz leather and thicker and not one crack

PS skiving the leather can help, but thin leather can and will crack as well so the main thing is wet it down

Edited February 25, 2016 by thekid77

[Art]

Almost everyone has cracked the grain at this point at least once in their career. Dry top grain will crack on acute bends, just a fact. Generally, I don't relieve the bend in anything but thick leather. I do skive down the ends where the rivets or sewing goes. Get the fold/crease good and wet, like everyone says, then put a buckle on it so it wet forms. After it is good and wet, you can hammer on it if you want. If you recut the end, you probably won't lose much more than a couple of inches. If that is a problem, make a ranger style belt, or a stranger/ranger that has a buckle on the belt, but closes with a ranger billet.

Art

[CustomDoug]

OK - I'll be wetting the bends from now on. Is this necessary with FULL grain leather as well?

Edited February 25, 2016 by CustomDoug

[Art]

The grain is usually what cracks, doesn't matter what it is, but veg tan is more of a target than chrome tan.

Art

[Mike516]

I just had this happen to me with a stained, edged and oiled dog collar. I was putting the buckle on and the leather cracked on me. It was oiled and still cracked.

So I want to try this wet form you all speak of. Am I to understand, I would wet the leather, put a buckle on it where I want the bend and stamp it and whatever. Then when I go to stain and oil it, I can take the buckle off to straighten the belt so I can stain it, then bend it back? I've never done this so I'm also including a picture of what I think you all are talking about.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Mike516

[Birdman]

Are you using a veg tanned leather?

If so you can do all the cutting, shaving skiving,puncing, edge staining etc, and then when you need to fit the buckle, damp the (grain) area that is going to bend.

I will probably be shot down by the forums Health and Safety Brigade, but most saddlers just lick a finger and wipe the grain side of the area! Or use a damp sponge................

If the leather is particularly thick and/or resistant to bend, just bend a little and dampen again and repeat until you have the full bend. The dampening allows the grain to stretch without cracking.

This ability is also a guide to the quality of the leather. Good leather will bend easily without cracking (when dampened), inferior quality leather needs more care and/or will not bend without cracking.

If you feel it is necessary, you can lay the strap flat and re crease the stretched grain before finally fitting the buckle.

I suggest you get a piece of scrap leather and have a play to get the 'feel and sight' of what happens.

I hope this helps.

[Mike516]

Yes, veg tanned. And yes, it does help, thank you.

I have never had this problem before. Now all of a sudden I'm having issues. Another collar cracked today and it's pretty frustrating. A lot of wasted time, money, and materials.

I have never had to do any of this extra stuff before bending this leather. I'm thinking I got screwed on this hide. I really have to consider finding a new supplier and paying the extra $ for better hides. I thought I could buy cheap hides since I'm doing dog collars mostly and don't have to worry about range marks and stuff. But if this is going to be an ongoing thing, it looks like that is not the only consideration when it comes to leather quality.

I should just go back to bed at this point.

[Art]

I should just go back to bed at this point.

Can we vote on that?, I'll second it. I've been fighting a cold or something for 4-5 weeks now and maybe it is a little better, but damn, it is rough getting old.

First belt I tried to put a buckle on, it cracked (tooled belt too). Now I wet everything that's going to bend past 90 or thin it down a lot on the flesh side, that seems to take care of the cracking too.

Art

[Mike516]

I was sick beginning of winter, got better, then sick again the next month and got better, Then I was sick again a couple weeks ago and finally broke down and went to the Dr because that time it really kicked my ass. He said I got better but never completely knocked it out so that's why I kept getting sick. I needed antibiotics, their answer to everything, but I seem to be better again. You should go to the Dr. I hate going too, but 4-5 weeks is too long.

So anyway I didn't go back to bed, I'm no quitter. And I have too much stuff to do. I'm practicing my tooling and sewing.

You guys are talking about wetting the grain side before it is stained, right? Did you see my picture of how I'm sort of wet forming it so it's already bent? I wet it, put the buckle where it's going to wind up with a rubber band, stamped the pups name on it. Now I let it dry and I'll remove the buckle to stain, oil, burnish etc, then I'll put the buckle back and rivet it. Is that ok, or do I need to be doing something differently?

[Art]

Went to the Dr. last week, now on antibiotics.

The way you are doing it should be ok.

Art

[Mike516]

Ok thanks Art. Feel better soon.

[johnv474]

If you still have issues with cracking, wet the leather with water than has a little Dawn dish soap in it. It can be formed ahead of time this way, or afterwards. When I say "wet" I mean use a damp sponge several times and let the water soak in like you were casing it... I do not mean sopping wet and do not mean trying to bend it within minutes of moistening it.

That and a cobbler's hammer will help.

[Dwight]

The vast majority of belts I make are final coated in Resolene, . . . when I get to the buckle end, . . . I coat both sides with Resolene, . . . then I make my bend, . . . fold it over real good and tight, . . . then smooth out the Resolene finish, . . . hang it up to dry.  

I busted one of the prettiest belts I ever made before I learned this trick, . . . have not had ONE problem since I started doing it this way.

No, I do not skive the ends of my belts, . . . 95% of the time.  Only occasionally for special effects will I do that.

May God bless,

Dwgiht

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Dwight, when I am going to bend , roll over , or stress the surface of a piece of leather in some way I do it wet, then go on and finish the tooling or whatever I am doing to the project before finishing it.  I would rather see the stretch marks when I am working on the piece and after I fold it see the marks go away.  That is how I do it.  In some cases, like a buckle end of a belt, just before I fold it, and before I put finish on it, I wet it, then fold then let it dry and finish.  By the way, I only make lined belts, so when I make them,  I stop the lining right where the slot for the buckle tongue is and skive the folded end to almost feather edge and fold the front, single ply over the buckle bar and then glue and stitch or affix with a snap, depending on the customer's wishes.  Hope that helps without being too confusing.

Bob

 

[Dwight]

Like you, . . . most of my belts are also lined.  I have a special cutter that puts the two pieces together up at the buckle end.

Just one of those "process steps" that we all get into, . . . I found that the Resolene dampens the leather plenty enough for me to make that bend without any cracking and so I've just "done it that way" so to speak.

I also had a problem one time with snaps, . . . quit using them, . . . all my belts go out now with Chicago screws.  I put one in front of the keeper and one behind it.

No complaints so far, . . . and I usually don't have to skive, because my lining leather is almost every time, from the same hide.  I cut two pieces, . . . take the better looking one for the outside, the other one goes to the inside.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Mike516]

Ok so let me get this straight...you guys who wet the leather do it before you stain, right? So the leather gets the bend but you can still sew in a lining, then bend it back for the buckle and not get a crack.

Dwight. when you use resolene, obviously you use it after you stain as a finish. So the resolene would go on last, after the belt is stained and lined, just before you put the buckle on, is that right? Or do you make the fold and let it dry before putting your buckle on?

I apologize for asking again, I'm really trying to avoid another belt cracking but I'm getting a little confused, and trying to figure out which of these methods might work best for me. I tried the "wet forming" which works good but makes it difficult to sew in a lining.

I like mink oil, so I wonder if that would work instead of resolene.

[Dwight]

Mike516, yes you are right, . . . the only thing that goes onto my belts after the resolene, is the dust that gathers hanging in the closet........lol.

My outside piece on a lined belt stays flat for stamping, sewing, tooling, and all that stuff.

Then when all that is done, . . . it gets dyed.

When that is dry (and I mean DRY................), . . . I'll actually flex it a bit in my hand, . . . nothing serious, . . . just roll it enough so if I lay it on its edge on a table, it will stay standing up, . . .  maybe a 40 inch circle????

Then comes the Resolene process, . . . with a 1 inch pig hair bristle brush (them cheap little rascals at harbor freight, . . . I get em when on sale).  I give it a good coat on the inside, . . . going back and forth, . . . brushing out all the bubbles.  That includes the buckle end, . . . I usually do it last.

I then flip the belt over, . . . give it a real good coat up at the buckle end, . . . and this is when I do my bending, . . . and I do it kinda of slowly, . . . making a really good bend, . . . usually with a small wooden dowel where the buckle would be.  

I then complete the Resolene treatment to the rest of the belt, . . . come back up and touch up the buckle end, . . . lay it on the top edge on a piece of cardboard for about 15 minutes, . . . flip it to the other edge and allow it to fully and finally dry.

Tomorrow, when it is fully dry, . . . I'll take it to my electric burnisher (think 1 hp electric motor with  burnishing wooden tool on the shaft), . . . i burnish the edges, . . . put on the buckle and belt keeper with 2 chicago screws, . . . it's done.

Seriously, I have never had a problem since I started it this way.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Mike516]

Thanks Dwight, much appreciated. I may give that a try. Might try mink oil as well.

 

[Dwight]

I've never done it, . . . but I have heard of folks using mink oil as their final finish, . . .  

Can't be all bad, . . . I mean, heck, a couple hundred years ago, what were your options:  mink oil, bear grease, tallow, beeswax, olive oil, . . .  many items were used then that we have developed replacements for now.

Give it a whirl, . . . worst thing that will happen will be like some of my "experiments", . . . off to the "didn't work out" box.

 It's getting pretty full  

May God bless,

Dwight

[Northmount]

Dwight's comment about shaping the fold around a small dowel makes a lot of difference.  It's the real secret of the process.  If bent back tight with nothing inside the fold, the outside fibers are really being stretched.  Had the same thing happen on a wallet a while back.  It's important to avoid folding and pressing as if it was a piece of paper.

Tom