Mcqueen Holster - Sort Of....

[dikman]

Some time ago I asked about McQueen's holster (from The Magnificent Seven). Lots of useful responses, thanks guys, so I eventually had a go at making one.

An interesting exercise, to say the least. My paper pattern could have been a bit wider, although I just managed to squeeze the gun in while molding it. Biggest mistake - I was so fired up to make it that I forgot to put the Chicago screws between the leather before gluing!!!! So I had to recess the screws afterwards. Minor problem, but it should work ok.

I was going to just use neatsfoot oil on the leather, to keep it natural, but then decided to use some Feibings Mid Brown that I have. My first use of this, on a belt, came out as what I would call a dark brown, so I cut this 50% to try and lighten it. It now has a reddish tinge to it! (Reminds me of Red Cent's search for a true brown).

I should have stuck to the neatsfoot oil, I think.

While it's not as neat as many on here, as long as it's functional is the main thing as I've just received my holster certification and the testing showed that my other cross-draw had too great an angle (although it was 30 degrees, if the belt angle changed it could become a problem). This one is 20 degrees, so will function as both strong side and cross-draw.

[stu925]

Some time ago I asked about McQueen's holster (from The Magnificent Seven). Lots of useful responses, thanks guys, so I eventually had a go at making one.

McQueen 1a.jpg

McQueen 2a.jpg

McQueen 3a.jpg

An interesting exercise, to say the least. My paper pattern could have been a bit wider, although I just managed to squeeze the gun in while molding it. Biggest mistake - I was so fired up to make it that I forgot to put the Chicago screws between the leather before gluing!!!! So I had to recess the screws afterwards. Minor problem, but it should work ok.

I was going to just use neatsfoot oil on the leather, to keep it natural, but then decided to use some Feibings Mid Brown that I have. My first use of this, on a belt, came out as what I would call a dark brown, so I cut this 50% to try and lighten it. It now has a reddish tinge to it! (Reminds me of Red Cent's search for a true brown).

I should have stuck to the neatsfoot oil, I think.

While it's not as neat as many on here, as long as it's functional is the main thing as I've just received my holster certification and the testing showed that my other cross-draw had too great an angle (although it was 30 degrees, if the belt angle changed it could become a problem). This one is 20 degrees, so will function as both strong side and cross-draw.

Looking at the pictures I was thinking to myself that I wouldn't want the chicago screws up against my gun. Then I read the lower portion of the post and saw they were recessed in, nice recovery on the mistake. Looks great, very authentic. I like the color but I agree that the neatsfoot oil might have been a better choice.

Stu

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

Good looking holster! Nice recovery on the screws, too.

I have a question though...

Holster certification and testing? Is your club there that picky? Most of the clubs in my area will tell new people about the 30 degree from vertical rule, but I cannot recall anyone actually /checking/ it.

I'm not knocking anyone's desire to get it right, I just want to make sure I'm understanding what you're saying.

Oh! Another query, what did you cut the Mid Brown with? I am actually quite partial to that red-brown tone.

[Toney]

Very nice

[dikman]

Thanks for the nice comments, guys, particularly as I would only consider this an "adequate effort" compared to the excellent work I see on here.

Stu, I have to make another one, as I need the pair, so it will have to be the same colour, but I'm tempted to make another one as well and just use the neatsfoot oil just to see what it will look like ( ).

Red Bear, I used lacquer thinner to cut it. I'm not sure if it's the right stuff to be using (spirit dye, not oil-based) but it seems to work. My first effort was with White Spirit, but it wouldn't mix and the colour made a bubble that floated in the Spirit (looked pretty cool!). I finished off the holster with two coats of hot neatsfoot oil, one after the other, and rubbed in with a cloth. Let it dry for a few hours then applied a mix of beeswax/mutton tallow/neatsfoot oil, rubbed it in and buffed it with a lambswool pad. The colour isn't uniform but slightly patchy, which suits me fine as it should give it a slightly aged/used/worn look (I hope).

Holster accreditation. In this country anything to do with firearms is controlled by strict regulations. The only way you can own handguns is by joining an approved pistol club, and they can only be used at club ranges. Holsters are a no-no, unless you pass testing for the particular purpose - IPSC, ISSF, Single Action etc. While the relevant club will run the course/testing, all of this is controlled by the Firearms Branch of the police. If you get caught using a holster and aren't accredited you can lose the lot - guns and licence! Because of this control, clubs are extremely safety conscious as any incident can have dire ramifications for the club. The 30 degree rule, and the resultant possibility of "sweeping" with the barrel, is one that is a potential issue so is carefully watched. (We had to get another Single Action club in to do the testing, as we don't have anyone approved to do it).

Sorry for waffling on, but it can be hard for you Yanks to comprehend how Draconian our laws are!

[Red Cent]

The brown in this picture was created by taking Buckskin and putting four or five drops of black into it. I took a plastic bottle about the size of a pill bottle, filled it up and mixed in the drops of black. When first applied you will get a greenish tint that will turn to brown with the second coat. Might get better if one used more black. I used Fiebing's spirit dye.

Threw in the last picture .

It is impossible to think what happened in your country would ever happen here. Blood would run in the streets.

....

Edited March 4, 2016 by Red Cent

[stu925]

The brown in this picture was created by taking Buckskin and putting four or five drops of black into it. I took a plastic bottle about the size of a pill bottle, filled it up and mixed in the drops of black. When first applied you will get a greenish tint that will turn to brown with the second coat. Might get better if one used more black. I used Fiebing's spirit dye.

Threw in the last picture .

It is impossible to think what happened in your country would ever happen here. Blood would run in the streets.

....

We'd like to think it's impossible anyway. Red Cent, those rigs look great, very nice work.

Stu

[dikman]

That brown is nice, it actually looks brown! One of the problems with these dyes is that it depends on what base colour is used to create it initially, wihout knowing this mixing colours can have all sorts of interesting effects. That last photo is sort of what I originally envisaged (but not in two-tone, very striking).

I've decided to make the next holster "natural", just using neatsfoot oil and waxing it. Depending which one I like best I'll then make another one in that colour to give me a pair. Fortunately, the actual cost of making a holster is pretty low material-wise, the cost, as we know, is mostly in the time involved so not using one of them is no big deal.

You guys are possibly quite unique in the world in having your Second Amendment. DO NOT let them modify it, change it or take it away or you'll end up like us!!! We (Australia) tend to be held up as a shining example of gun control and how it prevents "bad things" happening. Don't you believe it. The only people affected by these strict laws are what we refer to as LAFO's - Law Abiding Firearm Owners - the bad guys, strangely enough, ignore these laws and don't seem to have any trouble getting (illegal) firearms.

Edited March 4, 2016 by dikman

[gary]

Thanks for the nice comments, guys, particularly as I would only consider this an "adequate effort" compared to the excellent work I see on here.

...

Sorry for waffling on, but it can be hard for you Yanks to comprehend how Draconian our laws are!

Draconian?

http://basc.org.uk/basc-scotland/airguns-in-scotland/airgun-licensing-in-scotland-frequently-asked-questions/

[dikman]

Yup. I see you're going down the same path. Air rifles here are classed the same as .22 rifles, paint ball guns and single/double barrel shotguns - must be registered and you need a licence to own one. I note that air pistols appear to be lumped in with air rifles over there, but here an air pistol is considered the same as any other handgun (with the same restrictions on ownership).

As has been said many times, once government and bureaucracy get involved logic and common-sense fly out the window!

[longtooth]

Looking at the color on my original from Andy I would say you nailed the color. Nice job.

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

Gary, Dikman,
I feel for you guys, truly. I didn't know it even extended to holsters, that's just sad. Hopefully all the major hurdles have been cleared for you now and you can go enjoy shooting!
Red Cent,
I saw your center picture on Facebook. Someone had posted that their new rig was on its way to them. I saw it and posted back, "Hey! That looks like Red Cent's work!" They confirmed it and gushed over it and you. Congrats to that!

Edited March 4, 2016 by Red Bear Haraldsson

[Red Cent]

Thanks folks.

[dikman]

Red Cent, I meant to ask how you get such uniform colouring? By dipping?

Longtooth, your info was invaluable in understanding the design. Many thanks. (I must admit the colour is a fluke on my part ).

Edited March 4, 2016 by dikman

[Red Cent]

I have tried dipping and I don't care for it. The dye will migrate to the lowest edge and pool.

I have discovered that you cannot get good coverage unless you take the leather to the color intended. By that I mean, I lay a piece of leather flat and color it good, not worrying about streaks. I continue to color the leather (I use a small piece of towel. I cannot control my application with a sponge) and when I start to see that the coverage is good and the dye doesn't dry out/be absorbed so fast, I start long even strokes. Stroke until the towel piece is almost dry. There is a point that the dye will very slowly be absorbed and that's when I stop.

[dikman]

(Insert bright flash of light!). Now that makes perfect sense! I've always been concerned at adding too much dye because the stuff I've read always indicated that I should get coverage just using a couple of coats. I see now that I wasn't going far enough. Many thanks for explaining your method.

I've just been asked to make a couple of shotgun cartridge belts, and looking at your design it's rather intriguing. Is it a belt with another piece stitched on the inside, extended up and folded over? It looks like it will have the effect of angling the cartridges away from the body a little. It's certainly different to every other one that I've seen.

[Red Cent]

Some SASS members questioned the legality of the belt. However, Deuce Stevens presented the belt to the SASS RO committee for approval and it passed. Doc Noper, a friend of Deuce's, came up with the idea.

That is a 21" X 6" piece of 8-9 ounce veg tanned folded in half. I use two pieces of leather to form the belt for each end. You will alter the tilt if you run a piece all the way around the bottom. After sewing on the loops, you glue it all together and sew.

[dikman]

Nice. I might have ago at something similar, just for the ruckus it's likely to create here . The fact it's been approved by the governing body would be my "ace-in-the-hole"!

I tried my holster at the range yesterday, and I like it. I just have to develop a technique for clearing the front sight (so that it doesn't catch on withdrawal) but that's no big deal. The next one will be in natural leather, but I suspect I'll end up making two like that plus a matching belt. I like your two-tone effect, but I think I'll try that later .

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

I was going to ask you about clearing the front sight, but I had figured you already had a plan for that.

I'm going to give Red Cent's dye steps a try. All my browns look like wood grain. And the weirdest part is NFO does not darken leather for me. It does while wet, but once dry, it returns to the color it was before...

[dikman]

I've got a small bottle of thinned brown so I'm thinking of putting a bit in a small container and adding a couple of drops of black just to see what happens. Sounds like it might be worth experimenting a bit.

Front sight - I had intended removing it, as for such close range shooting I don't see that it's necessary, but a member from another club said that occasionally they will shoot at a target that has a small centre so greater accuracy will be required. I'm still undecided about it, but it's only a matter of developing a technique with very slight pressure pushing the muzzle to the rear. Doesn't need much, I'll see how I go.

[Red Cent]

"..... I just have to develop a technique for clearing the front sight."

Snagging on the bottom of the holster or clearing the mouth of the pouch?

[dikman]

Not snagging the bottom of the holster.

One thing I noticed is that on the Remington 1875 the part of the ejector (the bit you push) at the front sticks out quite a bit and my molding around it is a bit too snug. On this next one I've taped a dowel along the barrel behind the front sight and also one from the front of the ejector to the front of the receiver. Along with padding out the frame/cylinder a bit this should provide smoother contours to mold the leather around, thus giving a bit more "wiggle room". I'm also trying a slightly different method - last time I molded the pouch around the gun, let it dry and then stitched the pouch edge (I stitched most of it first, leaving the pouch edge until molded). This time, after stitching all the edge except the pouch, I thoroughly wet it and folded it over, lined up the pouch edges, lightly clamped it and left it to dry. Tomorrow I'll stitch the pouch edge - I may run two rows of stitching down, still thinking about that one - and then wet it and work the gun into it to shape it.

I figure by the time I do #3 I should just about have figured out the best way to make them.

And this time I remembered to fit the Chicago screws before gluing the leather halves!

[Red Cent]

Molding the gun will create a lot of retention. I never mold a SASS holster. After it is complete, I soak the holster in very warm water, open the holster with a large pointed dowel rod, and then work in the revolver. I fan dry the holster and it dries as hard as a brick.

[dikman]

Keep them good tricks and ideas coming, RC . Actually, that is essentially what I've just done (it's drying next to me as I type). I wet it, folded it, dried and stitched it, then got the pouch part pretty wet and worked the revolver into it. Much better idea than wet molding it around the revolver, drying and then stitching.

In total this is holster #8 that I've made (all Western-style), and I think I'm slowly starting to come up with a method that works, although I'm still not sure with staining whether it's better to stain first and then mold or stain after all the molding is done. Even with spirit-based dyes the water still tends to bring out traces of colour during wet-molding.

[dikman]

Next version. The bottom of the holster is the same width but I made it 1/4" wider at the trigger guard, which gave just a little more room inside overall. I also lowered the slot in the front edge a bit more. By fitting the dowel along the extractor rod it gave a much better fit, the gun now slides out smoothly without the slight drag from the extractor that I could feel in the other one. The dowel behind the front sight appears to have angled the revolver slightly in the holster, with the barrel sitting a bit to the rear of the holster's leading edge and as a result the front sight doesn't catch (as much) on the bottom of the holster. It has zero retention, and the cylinder can be rotated in the holster (although that's not something we do!).

Two quick coats of hot Neatsfoot oil, followed by an application of wax and then it was buffed a little. I figure that by buffing it regularly it should slowly get to the finish I want. Since this one appears to be a better fit to the gun, I guess I'll make another the same and then a matching belt (another gunbelt! Aarrgghh). Funnily enough, when they're side-by-side I think I like the reddish-brown better .

Edited March 9, 2016 by dikman