Machine For Sewing Sneaker Midsole?

[Daniel G]

I want to attach a sneaker upper to a midsole, so I'm Looking to find an alternative between the super cheap speedy stitcher and ridiculously expensive Global sm-7555. Any ideas?

[Darren Brosowski]

There are a couple of hand crank machines designed for this but I do not think that anyone in the USA has them

[Uwe]

Shoemaking is bit of a specialty application and shoe manufacturing uses lots of expensive specialty machinery.

Exactly how much are those cool SM-7555 machines? I've looked at them before and I'm fascinated by how they work. Not sure what your threshold for ridiculously expensive really is.

The thing is, if you're going make a bunch of shoes, that kind of machine (SM-7555) is probably exactly what you need, you just need more time to accept that and save up the money for it.

If you're only make a dozen shoes or so, hand stitch them and charge twice as much.

Many cylinder arm machines could do the back half of the shoe, it's the front half that'll cost you an extra few grand and very few machines can do that.

For potentially cheaper vintage options, look at shoe repair machines like the McKay stitchers or potentially some Puritan single needle post stitchers. Those machines are designed to sew shoes along the inside edges. The weigh a ton, almost literally, but can be bought used for a few grand. They look like a real pain to use. Needles and awls are also expensive at around $8 per needle or awl:

[Wizcrafts]

I was going to mention the McKay machines, but, after watching a few videos, realized that they are not really meant for sewing sidewalls. McKays are chainstitch machines and rely upon overlaid insoles to hide the thread chains. If a member owns a McKay, perhaps they will chime in and tell us if the machine can sew sidewalls on sneakers.

[Daniel G]

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to reply. I appreciate your help.

There are a couple of hand crank machines designed for this but I do not think that anyone in the USA has them

Are you referring to one of these? I just found this and the head looks somewhat similar to the global machine. I'm going to send an email to the distributor and ask.

Shoemaking is bit of a specialty application and shoe manufacturing uses lots of expensive specialty machinery.

Exactly how much are those cool SM-7555 machines? I've looked at them before and I'm fascinated by how they work. Not sure what your threshold for ridiculously expensive really is.

The thing is, if you're going make a bunch of shoes, that kind of machine (SM-7555) is probably exactly what you need, you just need more time to accept that and save up the money for it.

If you're only make a dozen shoes or so, hand stitch them and charge twice as much.

Many cylinder arm machines could do the back half of the shoe, it's the front half that'll cost you an extra few grand and very few machines can do that.

For potentially cheaper vintage options, look at shoe repair machines like the McKay stitchers or potentially some Puritan single needle post stitchers. Those machines are designed to sew shoes along the inside edges. The weigh a ton, almost literally, but can be bought used for a few grand. They look like a real pain to use. Needles and awls are also expensive at around $8 per needle or awl:

I was told over $20,000 for the global machine. Too much coin for this hobbyist.

I thought about a cylinder arm for doing the back half as well. Might be worth it if it chops the time in half.

I was going to mention the McKay machines, but, after watching a few videos, realized that they are not really meant for sewing sidewalls. McKays are chainstitch machines and rely upon overlaid insoles to hide the thread chains. If a member owns a McKay, perhaps they will chime in and tell us if the machine can sew sidewalls on sneakers.

Don't think the Mckay machine would work either. I could be wrong. Hopefully more users could chime in.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Daniel G

[electrathon]

Short of spending lots on a real machine I would use a jerk needle (a needle off a hook and awl machine). About my last choice for sewing anything would be a speedy stitcher.

[sandyt]

Very interesting machine! Would love to hear more about it.

Would be perfect for shoes if it could handle thick thread.

[dikman]

Search on the forum for Chinese shoe patcher, there have been a few posts about them. That one is slightly different to the one's that I've seen (and the one I have) as it appears to have a raised post, rather than the usual flat arm. Mine will only handle #69 thread.

Darren probably knows more about those machines than anyone else I know.

[Daniel G]

Thanks again for all the replies.

The seller went ahead and posted a video on youtube. It looks like it'll work well. I'm still communicating through email. I want to find out if the stitch length is adjustable and what size thread it can handle. 

I'm not sure how to embed videos here? 

http://<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wVr4X93Khr8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edited March 30, 2016 by Daniel G

[Uwe]

That video looks like a pretty good demo of the machine's capabilities. Might be just right for small scale shoe production. Those machines are very interesting I think - worth taking a little gamble.  

I'm going to try embedding the video again just by copying and pasting the YouTube URL directly from the browser's web address field (the blue highlighted part in the attached screen shot):

Here we go:

 

Edited March 30, 2016 by Uwe

[Hockeymender]

I have been in contact with this company (Robin Industries) re one of their machines, the RC-32-4A. They stated the only method of payment they accept is a wire transfer. Did a little research on that payment method  and discovered quite a few horror stories about people that have wired money to China. The funds are sent only to have them disappear and they never did receive what they were attempting to purchase. I am not stating that Robin industries have been involved in any of this, but after reading about these issues I would rather not take the chance.  I asked if there were any "dealers" for their machines, to which they responded "no dealers for this machine". Too bad, would have really liked to get that machine and make a project out of setting it up for my purposes. From the above video, they seem to do a rather nice job.

[Daniel G]

5 hours ago, Hockeymender said:

I have been in contact with this company (Robin Industries) re one of their machines, the RC-32-4A. They stated the only method of payment they accept is a wire transfer. Did a little research on that payment method  and discovered quite a few horror stories about people that have wired money to China. The funds are sent only to have them disappear and they never did receive what they were attempting to purchase. I am not stating that Robin industries have been involved in any of this, but after reading about these issues I would rather not take the chance.  I asked if there were any "dealers" for their machines, to which they responded "no dealers for this machine". Too bad, would have really liked to get that machine and make a project out of setting it up for my purposes. From the above video, they seem to do a rather nice job.

Thanks for your help Uwe

I understand your concern. How long ago did you contact them? I see a PayPal banner on the bottom of their page, I went ahead and sent an email for pricing and to see if they accept PayPal. 

[Hockeymender]

Within the last two days. They don't accept credit cards or Paypal, at least not from North America. 

[dikman]

A bit strange that they don't accept credit cards or Paypal, probably the two most common methods of payment on the 'net. They would be doing themselves out of a bit of business, I reckon. Pity, as it looks like it might go through holster thickness!

 

It looks like a bigger/heftier version of mine (mine takes domestic-type needles and the bobbin is pretty small so not much good for heavier thread).

[Daniel G]

54 minutes ago, dikman said:

A bit strange that they don't accept credit cards or Paypal, probably the two most common methods of payment on the 'net. They would be doing themselves out of a bit of business, I reckon. Pity, as it looks like it might go through holster thickness!

 

It looks like a bigger/heftier version of mine (mine takes domestic-type needles and the bobbin is pretty small so not much good for heavier thread).

A friend(online) of mine that does custom work out of Pakistan only accepts Western Union as well. I never bother to ask him why until now. 

1 hour ago, Hockeymender said:

Within the last two days. They don't accept credit cards or Paypal, at least not from North America. 

Darn. 

Edit: I just found robinindustry on ebay. Seems like they have solid feedback. Gonna see how much this thing cost and take it from there. 

Edited March 31, 2016 by Daniel G

[mikesc]

<slightly OT>Paypal doesn't accept accounts opened from Pakistan , the only Pakistani businesses who can accept paypal are those who have family outside of Pakistan , you send the money to their paypal account, and they forward it via bank transfer or western union to the business or person in Pakistan..Some of my designs are made for me in Pakistan ( Pakistan also makes a huge amount of apparel and other leather items for big internationally known brands that say made in USA or made in France etc ) mine say designed in France..Anything designed by me that is not made in France does not say made in France, but many designers and "manufacturers" around the world are not as scrupulous..

Some Pakistani leather work is very good, very high quality, very skilled workers, many of you are probably wearing or using Pakistani leather items daily, but they will be marked as made somewhere else, in many cases the "made in some other country" labels are sent separately to the items and are then sewn into the apparel or the items, in the country that receives them both by the supposed manufacturer..This kind of "deal" was offered to me by Pakistani manufacturers over 20 years ago, new ones offer me the same thing every month..

You buy a big name brand biker jacket for say $450.oo or a big name brand corset for say $350.oo..the cost price out of Pakistan is around $50.oo for the jacket and $35.oo ( or less ) on the corset..Chinese "leather" is usually not leather..usually PU..or is sold as "genuine artificial leather"..and is not stitched nearly as well as the Pakistani exports..

I'd rather make all the items that I design in France, but we actually pay far higher taxes on any profits on what we make here as artisans or manufacturers than we do on profits of things that are designed here and we have made abroad and then imported by us..raw materials, leather ( veg or chrome tan ) thread, lining fabrics, silk etc cost about the same here as elsewhere, machines ( new or used ) are much more expensive here,  labour is also more expensive, but it is the higher taxes and charges on the profit of what we make here ( as opposed to what we have made elsewhere ) that are really ridiculous..

 

The fact that the big name brands manufacture abroad and sell as made in France ( same thing happens in the USA etc ) and make huge profits by lying about the true country of manufacture of what they sell also doesnt' help and small businesses or craft artisans anywhere..

</slightly OT>

[mikesc]

Wanted to add this as an "edit" to my last post, but the edit button is now not working for me , even with all scripts from leatherworker.net allowed, it opens , asks me for the edit reason, but gives me no ability to edit the post..another bug ?

 

So.. despite the used ( and new ) machine market here being usually much more expensive than the USA, I have just noticed a machine , very like the "robin" but an original cast and wrought Iron machine by Adler ( I think it is ) for sale about 150 kms from me for €199.oo, seems in good condition, but having just bought a Singer29K51 "patcher" ( only one previous owner, a French shoemaker ) which is sitting in our lounge waiting for me to clean it up ( the lounge was only place I had left to put it, or any other machine for now, we've run out of space ) my wife is very understanding..so far ..and reading Constabulary's "sig" each day I couldn't pass by a 29K51patcher, that actually works, rescued cast iron eh..only paid €125.oo..usually they go for €500.oo..here at minimum, even when obviously missing parts or broken/damaged..

Where could I hide another shoe machine, even a cute curvy one..

 

and now the edit works again..go figure..gremlins ?

Edited March 31, 2016 by mikesc
gremlins

[Hockeymender]

On March 21, 2016 at 7:12 PM, sandyt said:

Very interesting machine! Would love to hear more about it.

Would be perfect for shoes if it could handle thick thread.

As an update to this, I purchased one of these from Robin Industries. I wired the $ to them on a Friday and I received an email from them Tuesday morning stating they had received the funds. I had the machine in my shop 12 days after sending the money. 

It was a rough as a cob, and it took quite a bit of work to polish, smooth and adjust. All that done, the machine sews surprisingly well. I've tried several materials and thread sizes in it and it does well with all. 

I would not hesitate to deal with Robin Industries again. If you choose to get one of these machines just be ready to do quite a bit of work to get it "into good shape". 

[Northmount]

Edit is only available for a short time after posting.  So if it has timed out, continue with a new post.  If there is something you really need it edited, ask a moderator.

Tom

 

[dikman]

Hockeymender, much like my experience with the smaller version, I spent a fair bit of time smoothing some of the castings (sliding parts) and generally did a bit of tidying up and modifying slightly, but it's a pretty solid little machine overall.

What size thread did you get up to on yours?

[Hockeymender]

I tried some 346 in it. I never use anything that heavy but wanted to see what it would do and it handled it fine. I concur, very solid machine that sews quite well if your willing to put some time into setting it up. 

[mikesc]

Tom..re "edit"..at the time when I posted that, it was during the upgrade..the edit facilty was unavailable to me ( maybe to others ?) , even within 30 seconds of the original posting, stayed like that for a while, then suddenly came back ( the scripts were shuffling about back there, or being got back into line by Johanna ), but it insisted that I put something in the "edit reason box"..( I wonder if I put "fumble fingers" or "senile typing" if it would let me edit, or just up my meds ;-)..linking went weird for a while too, had to put BB code in by hand..

Now it all works wonderfully again :)

[dikman]

346? I reckon that's pretty impressive!

I just found their website and they have a couple of interesting machines, also down the bottom of the page it says Paypal.

Edited May 1, 2016 by dikman

[Hockeymender]

2 hours ago, dikman said:

346? I reckon that's pretty impressive!

I just found their website and they have a couple of interesting machines, also down the bottom of the page it says Paypal.

Yes, it does say PayPal. I asked about that and all they said was that don't accept it. Go figure. 

[Daniel G]

20 hours ago, Hockeymender said:

As an update to this, I purchased one of these from Robin Industries. I wired the $ to them on a Friday and I received an email from them Tuesday morning stating they had received the funds. I had the machine in my shop 12 days after sending the money. 

It was a rough as a cob, and it took quite a bit of work to polish, smooth and adjust. All that done, the machine sews surprisingly well. I've tried several materials and thread sizes in it and it does well with all. 

I would not hesitate to deal with Robin Industries again. If you choose to get one of these machines just be ready to do quite a bit of work to get it "into good shape". 

Good to hear! I plan on picking one up as soon as my budget allows.