Vinegeroon And Motorcycle Seats

[jrny4wrd]

With the side being folded over and laying on the bike is vinegeroon a bad idea? Will it effect the bike? I have a friend whom asked me to make a solid black seat cover for a badlander 2 seater. Tooled and black. Not wanting the rub off I am considering vinegeroon. Thoughts?

[Martyn]

If you neutralise it with a soak/wash in baking poweder, it should be fine. If you're worried about the acidity, check it with litmus paper after washing. I've used in ona knife sheath for a carbon steel knife with no ill effects.

[David8386]

I have a bag I made that sits on the back fender of my dyna a couple of years ago. It has eaten into the paint a little in a few places don't know if it is all the vinagroon or if some of it is dirt rubbing because it is always on the bike in any weather. I thought I had neutralized it all but maybe not. If I did it again I would have lined the back with felt. Hope this helps some.

David

[robs456]

Not wanting the rub off I am considering vinegeroon.

Roon rubs off.

[Martyn]

Roon rubs off.

I dont know what you've been using, but it doesnt rub off. It's not a stain and contains no pigments. In it's pure form, it's a clear liquid. It's a chemical reaction between the iron salts in the vinegaroon (ferric sulphide IIRC) and the tannins in the leather. It cant rub off, because it alters the leather itself.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Martyn

[jrny4wrd]

If you neutralise it with a soak/wash in baking poweder, it should be fine. If you're worried about the acidity, check it with litmus paper after washing. I've used in ona knife sheath for a carbon steel knife with no ill effects.

What acidity levels am I looking for?

[Martyn]

What acidity levels am I looking for?

I think veg tan has a pH of around 4. That's still quite acidic, you could try and push it closer to 7 with baking soda. Try a test piece and see.

[jrny4wrd]

Thank you never thought of using strips.

[robs456]

I dont know what you've been using, but it doesnt rub off. It's not a stain and contains no pigments. In it's pure form, it's a clear liquid. It's a chemical reaction between the iron salts in the vinegaroon (ferric sulphide IIRC) and the tannins in the leather. It cant rub off, because it alters the leather itself.

Sure man, in a perfect world that's how it works. And I admit that I and the others that have posted here in the past about 'roon rub off have made some errors along the way, but the truth is that you can get color transfer after using 'roon.

After the fact I think I know what I did wrong and how the roon came to rub off, may have been my fault and I'm posting it here so that others don't make the same mistake:

Made belt-dipped belt in 'roon-dipped belt in baking soda solution-rinsed belt in water-let dry-buffed with white cloth until no color transfer-sealed belt with 50/50 Resolene and water-wore belt during summer-found black spots on jeans-yes, they came from the belt...

So yes, while it's a chemical reaction to the leather it doesn't mean that 'other stuff' can't make the leather 'bleed'.

Edited March 21, 2016 by robs456

[Martyn]

So yes, while it's a chemical reaction to the leather it doesn't mean that 'other stuff' can't make the leather 'bleed'.

It's the tannin itself which changes colour. You can turn oak black oak with the same stuff. If 'black' is coming out of your leather, then it's the tannin leeching out, but it's definitely not rubbing off. The piece must've come into contact with something pretty reactive to make it leech like that. Either that or the leather hadn't been washed and neutralised and there was still some ferric sulphide salts left in it, which bled out and came into contact with something containing tannin and turned it black.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Martyn

[robs456]

the leather hadn't been washed and neutralised and there was still some ferric sulphide salts left in it, which bled out and came into contact with something containing tannin and turned it black.

That's my bet. It was neutralised but probably not washed good enough making the black solution bleed later.

My point though is that however it happens people need to realise 'roon isn't a 'fire and forget' kinda thing, and need to handle it correctly.

[casemaker]

I finish leather for commercial purposes and have discovered over the years that leather needs to be sealed if you don't want the finish rubbing off.

We have a "SATRA Finish Rub Fastness Tester" and have produced leather that will take 10,000 rubs.

The finish is a base coat of black resin and a top coat of black polyurethane resin, both with crosslinker.

It's probably overkill for a knife sheath or belt, but in our business we need durability.

[MADMAX22]

I had a roon seat I made and used for a couple of years no rub off, also had a few belts and holsters with no rub off. I did the usual roon/baking soda wash/rinse/neatsfoot oil/rub with snoseal or my  own mix of wax/oil. Never had an issue.