Are expensive whet stones worth it?

[Art]

1 hour ago, bikermutt07 said:

I have a tristone that I play with as well. I started out using the sharpy, sandpaper, and mouse pad method. Then I graduated to the quartz and sandpaper. 

It seems to me that on the tristone the fine rock is only 400-600 grit.

With the sandpaper (or the stone) I pull away from my edge turning it up just enough to grab the paper. After awhile you just get a feel for it. I work through my grits and then strop with the green compound from Tandy.

This is obviously not a master technique like Art would use (lord only knows what he's capable of), but it does work for me.

I still use the Sharpie/Marks-a-Lot/Dykem to tell me what's going on.  Even on machines I use it.  Even with jigs I use it, because if the setup is wrong, the whole thing is wrong; and if you get your profile wrong by not grinding enough, it just won't cut right.  If you grind too much, you're just wasting metal, so those guide lines are important. If I'm just putting an edge on a tool I will get away without marker, but for something critical, or a customer tool, always.

Art

[bikermutt07]

I always learn stuff from your posts. Your previous post,told me I was probably getting my pocket knives too sharp.

I'll back it down and see if the aus8 will hold up a little longer at work.

I'm thinking 1000 with stropping after? Or 800?

[Art]

7 minutes ago, bikermutt07 said:

I always learn stuff from your posts. Your previous post,told me I was probably getting my pocket knives too sharp.

I'll back it down and see if the aus8 will hold up a little longer at work.

I'm thinking 1000 with stropping after? Or 800?

OR 600 with stropping.  But keep the angle at 40°, 20° per side if it is a heavy user.  The 1000 or 800 will work fine too, that doesn't have anything to do with edge strength or how long you will go between sharpenings.  That's more of an angle thing.  It is the old how sharp is sharp thing.  It needs to be sharp enough to do the job, and 600 with stropping or 800 or 1000 won't make a lot of difference, but the angle with enough steel behind the edge makes a world of difference along with what you are cutting.  Stripping out romex or cutting cardboard boxes needs more angle than cutting meat.

Art

[bikermutt07]

2 hours ago, Art said:

OR 600 with stropping.  But keep the angle at 40°, 20° per side if it is a heavy user.  The 1000 or 800 will work fine too, that doesn't have anything to do with edge strength or how long you will go between sharpenings.  That's more of an angle thing.  It is the old how sharp is sharp thing.  It needs to be sharp enough to do the job, and 600 with stropping or 800 or 1000 won't make a lot of difference, but the angle with enough steel behind the edge makes a world of difference along with what you are cutting.  Stripping out romex or cutting cardboard boxes needs more angle than cutting meat.

Art

Ha! Angles.

My technique kind of slowly develops a convex edge. It's not a very precision process I'm using.

Appreciate the help.

Edited December 22, 2016 by bikermutt07

[YinTx]

So I've been researching stones, since I feel I need to up my game on sharpening, and my old pocket knife arkansas stone isn't going to cut it anymore, no pun intended.   Well, maybe.

Anyhow, what I've gleaned is that the DMT diamond stones have an uneven distribution of diamond sizes, which leaves random large gouges in the knife bevel.  The Atoma 1200 seems less inclined to do that.  I seem to find them for $75-$120.

The Cerax 1000 is an excellent soaking stone for $50 - one of the best for the price.  The King KDS combination stone is about the same price, with 1000 on one side and 3000 on the other.  And also a great stone.

I don't think I want to start out with buckets of water, and wait an hour to sharpen a knife while the stone soaks.  But there seems to be a lot of balyhoo about how a diamond stone is harsh on your knife bevels/edges.

Will I need another stone at 3000 grit or higher to finish sharpening, or will a strop take care of the rest?

Am i being overly analytical about all this, or does it really matter for a leather working knife?

Thanks all for the time...

YinTx

[bikermutt07]

The sharper the better

 I use automotive sandpaper up to 2000 and then strop.

I just lay the sandpaper on my granite top and pull away from the edge.

If I am just maintaining an edge I start at 800 and work my way up. When I get something new and dull I usually start at 220. Unless I'm reprofiling.

One thing that bothers me about this is I never develop that wire edge that has to be stropped off?

Edited February 22, 2017 by bikermutt07

[Brianm77]

Stones are good, but imho, the stones will get a dead spot in the middle or wherever you are doing the sharpening. You can get a special stone to flatten them back out, or on a buget you can do the sandpaper 180g or so on a piece of good flat stone or glass and flatten your sharpening stone back out.  If you do it more often it takes less to get back going again.  With just a few strokes across the paper you can see the black spots go away on the ends. 

[YinTx]

In the interest of not hijacking this thread, I have apologetically moved my questions to a new topic:

YinTx

[rickdroid]

13 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

One thing that bothers me about this is I never develop that wire edge that has to be stropped off?

Not saying that you are wrong, but you most probably are getting a wire edge and knocking it off before you realize it.

With practice you can feel the wire edge - use you fingernail and feel the edge of the blade.   Be sure to try both sides of the blade, remember that edge moves from one side of the blade to the other side.  It will be opposite to the side of the blade that is in contact with the stone.

A good way to tell if there is a wire edge is to try to shave slivers from a sheet of paper.  When you have removed the wire edge you will be able to shave tiny slivers from the paper with ease, the blade on a sharp well polished blade will easily cut through a sheet of paper without any kind of a sawing motion,.  If a wire edge still exists on the blade then the slivers will be ragged and it will seem like the blade is wandering as you try to shave the sliver from the paper.  If you have the edge removed you can push the blade through the paper without using a sawing motion.  If the edge hasnt been removed you probably will have to resort to a sawing motion to cut a sliver off of the paper.

Of course this is based on my experience and your may differ.  Hope this helps a little.

rick

[bikermutt07]

16 minutes ago, rickdroid said:

Not saying that you are wrong, but you most probably are getting a wire edge and knocking it off before you realize it.

With practice you can feel the wire edge - use you fingernail and feel the edge of the blade.   Be sure to try both sides of the blade, remember that edge moves from one side of the blade to the other side.  It will be opposite to the side of the blade that is in contact with the stone.

A good way to tell if there is a wire edge is to try to shave slivers from a sheet of paper.  When you have removed the wire edge you will be able to shave tiny slivers from the paper with ease, the blade on a sharp well polished blade will easily cut through a sheet of paper without any kind of a sawing motion,.  If a wire edge still exists on the blade then the slivers will be ragged and it will seem like the blade is wandering as you try to shave the sliver from the paper.  If you have the edge removed you can push the blade through the paper without using a sawing motion.  If the edge hasnt been removed you probably will have to resort to a sawing motion to cut a sliver off of the paper.

Of course this is based on my experience and your may differ.  Hope this helps a little.

rick

I don't think I'm getting a wire at all. I do look at the blade through a loop from time to time as I sharpen. As I'm using the sandpaper tiny hairs develop almost like shavings on a magnet. I think these "shavings" are taking the place of the wire due to my technique. But they aren't stuck. I usually wipe it off on my jeans and carry on. At least this is my theory.

I do notice a bit of difference in cutting between the 2000 grit and the strop. Cause, you know, I like to abuse paper.

Edited February 22, 2017 by bikermutt07