Something I haven't seen before -- how to clean it up?

[llucas]

On May 13, 2016 at 8:58 AM, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

When applying the glue, I try to keep it out of the stitch line area on projects where I anticipate this could be a problem. Also, as you have discovered, it takes less Barges to do the job than some other glues.

Unfortunately, I need a tight seam on the belts with no separation of any kind. But this sounds like a good idea for some other projects.

 

[llucas]

And . . . it happened again! I put together a belt using 8 oz. English bridle with a 2/3 oz. natural veg tan liner. I stirred the can and applied one thin coat of Barge on each piece, gave it an hour to set up, and joined the pieces. I rolled the piece with a j-roller and set it aside for two full days to cure. Then, I turned on the Beast (Adler 205-374) and proceeded to stitch it. It pulled up cement on the stitches that could not be removed with a dried glob of Barge. Not as bad as the first belt, but still unacceptable. Even worse, the needle lifted the work piece up three times (I assume due to the cement gripping the needle) and created a longer stitch in those places. If this is normal for Barge, it is now time to throw it in the trash and use another cement. Weldwood failed (at least the can I used failed -- but only on one belt) and now Barge even more so. Is Duall 88 really better? I need a solution quick as this is getting expensive trying to fill orders for customers. I can't let these blemished belts out the door. Any of you other belt and holster makers had to deal with this issue?

Heading to the local leather supply tomorrow as they have a crepe rubber eraser in stock.

Edited May 19, 2016 by llucas

[RockyAussie]

Hi llucas

Sorry to see your still having problems. I mostly don't use a lot of the veg leathers like English bridle but it occurred to me that that these leathers are a lot more oiled than I am used to and contact glue can stay quite tacky for ages.Do you have thinners for the barge? Like Madmaxx22 I also spray and usually I have to thin the glue by about 1/3 thinners to be able to spray it. Some veg jobs that in the past I have had to repair are still sticky after years. The thread I use is a polyamide multifilament called strongbond and is perhaps worth a try. It is good to burn off the ends and is very strong and long lasting. If your leather is waxy or greasy your crepe will only be good for 1 or 2 wipes. If all else fails get some silicone spray and give the belt a very light coat before stitching. (crepe will not work at all then) Best wishes

Brian F

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I don't think I've ever had the problem you're having, with the glue coming back up through the holes and I use Barges exclusively. On occasion, and only very rarely, I'll have the "sticking to the needle and lifting the work" problem, and I'm normally not all that careful about keeping the glue out of the stitch line like I advised you to do. Puzzling. . . .When sewing something with a lot of wax in it, like harness leather, I'll end up with lots of wax bits in the stitch line. They usually just wipe right off.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Big Sioux Saddlery

[llucas]

15 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Hi llucas

Sorry to see your still having problems. I mostly don't use a lot of the veg leathers like English bridle but it occurred to me that that these leathers are a lot more oiled than I am used to and contact glue can stay quite tacky for ages.Do you have thinners for the barge? Like Madmaxx22 I also spray and usually I have to thin the glue by about 1/3 thinners to be able to spray it. Some veg jobs that in the past I have had to repair are still sticky after years. The thread I use is a polyamide multifilament called strongbond and is perhaps worth a try. It is good to burn off the ends and is very strong and long lasting. If your leather is waxy or greasy your crepe will only be good for 1 or 2 wipes. If all else fails get some silicone spray and give the belt a very light coat before stitching. (crepe will not work at all then) Best wishes

Brian F

Brian, thanks for the suggestions. Yes, the Barge seems to be quite a bit thicker than the Weldwood I was previously using. I'll try to thin it down and see if that helps. Do you happen to know what the solvent is for thinning? The English bridle is indeed a little waxy and as I understand it it also has tallows in it. That may be part of the problem. This is only my third attempt at using the English bridle for belts and Barge is also a new item for me. The English bridle looks fantastic -- if I can get beyond this glue issue. After reading your post I thought of a contamination solution from woodworking: using shellac as a sealer. I may try that on a scrap and see if it makes a difference. I did wax the leather before stitching (kiwi neutral shoe wax) but the silicone might be better. 

In many ways hand stitching was easier, if also very slow.

[llucas]

8 hours ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

I don't think I've ever had the problem you're having, with the glue coming back up through the holes and I use Barges exclusively. On occasion, and only very rarely, I'll have the "sticking to the needle and lifting the work" problem, and I'm normally not all that careful about keeping the glue out of the stitch line like I advised you to do. Puzzling. . . .When sewing something with a lot of wax in it, like harness leather, I'll end up with lots of wax bits in the stitch line. They usually just wipe right off.

At first I thought it was wax coming up on the first belt -- until I tried to remove it and found it had a stretchy quality to it, lol. This is indeed a head scratcher. Brian's observation that it might be the waxy leather contaminating the Barge is interesting as well as suggesting that the Barge be thinned some. I am open to all informed suggestions at this point. It is starting to get expensive and I have four or five belt samples I need to put together for a gun store.

[Wizcrafts]

41 minutes ago, llucas said:

Brian, thanks for the suggestions. Yes, the Barge seems to be quite a bit thicker than the Weldwood I was previously using. I'll try to thin it down and see if that helps. Do you happen to know what the solvent is for thinning? The English bridle is indeed a little waxy and as I understand it it also has tallows in it. That may be part of the problem. This is only my third attempt at using the English bridle for belts and Barge is also a new item for me. The English bridle looks fantastic -- if I can get beyond this glue issue. After reading your post I thought of a contamination solution from woodworking: using shellac as a sealer. I may try that on a scrap and see if it makes a difference. I did wax the leather before stitching (kiwi neutral shoe wax) but the silicone might be better. 

In many ways hand stitching was easier, if also very slow.

Indeed, it is very waxy. I always rough up the flesh side when gluing bridle leather. A wire brush will do the trick. Rough both sides, then apply your glue.

We use Master's shoe cement in our leather shop. We thin it as needed with Master's thinner.

[llucas]

Does anyone know what the main solvent in Barge thinner is? The proprietary thinner is kind of pricey.

[JREESER1]

I use any brand of acetone, from Lowes or Home Depot. It works.

jr