And you think industrial sewing machines are expensive

[graywolf]

Finally got around to a reasonable near by industrial sewing machine store the other day.

They had the Juki DU-1541S for $1600. Physically bigger than I expected. Seemed expensive, so I asked about those plastic sewing machines out front.

Know what the most expensive one cost? $10,000. Yes, that is right "ten thousand US dollars". $1600 actually bought one that was pretty much the equivalent of my old Singer 750. So I guess industrial leather sewing machines are not so expensive after all.

[Colt W Knight]

Were they like the CNC embroidery and quilting machines? The new Adler leather sewing machine have all the fancy bells and whistles, and they are super expensive too

[graywolf]

Oh, sure, that is what the 10K one was. But still... plastic. Obviously, you are rather well off, or you have some kind of business that will support such a machine. You also probably have to replace it every 3~5 years because it is obsolete, while the industrial will be doing its thing 40 years from now.

[gottaknow]

I bought a Reece 101 keyhole buttonhole machine two years ago. $14,500. And all it does is buttonholes. Really nice ones though. My seam sealing machines for waterproof breathable fabric were 35k each. And I have two of them. The return on investment in a factory happens very quickly though. 

Regards, Eric 

[Wizcrafts]

My biggest single purchase was my first Union Lockstitch machine and all manner of parts and accessories. Combined, it cost me about $4,000, way back in 1988. I spent another thousand adding needles, awls and more bobbins and special presser feet. Thread for it used to cost $25 a pound for nylon and $30 a pound for linen.

The machine paid for itself over the first 5 years and began making a profit after that. I eventually sold it for $5,000, including boxes full of Barbour's Irish linen thread and heavy bonded nylon thread. Good equipment holds its value over the years.

What's strange to me is that back in the 1980s and 90s, heavy duty leather sewing machines like the Union Lockstitch, Randall, Campbell, Adler 205, Juki 441 and such, always sold new for anywhere from $5,000 to $8,000, where the 441 clones made today sell for $1600 to $2700 --- and people bitch about how expensive they are!

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

My biggest single purchase was my first Union Lockstitch machine and all manner of parts and accessories. Combined, it cost me about $4,000, way back in 1988. I spent another thousand adding needles, awls and more bobbins and special presser feet. Thread for it used to cost $25 a pound for nylon and $30 a pound for linen.

The machine paid for itself over the first 5 years and began making a profit after that. I eventually sold it for $5,000, including boxes full of Barbour's Irish linen thread and heavy bonded nylon thread. Good equipment holds its value over the years.

What's strange to me is that back in the 1980s and 90s, heavy duty leather sewing machines like the Union Lockstitch, Randall, Campbell, Adler 205, Juki 441 and such, always sold new for anywhere from $5,000 to $8,000, where the 441 clones made today sell for $1600 to $2700 --- and people bitch about how expensive they are!

I agree!  Around here, it's even worse. I don't know why, but so many people new to the business or wanting to get into it think that a "good used sewing machine to sew heavy leather" should run a couple hundred bucks. Of course they're the same people that think $10 an hour is a fair rate to have to pay for my work:-) I remember thinking the same thing though. A couple hundred bucks seemed like plenty for a "sewing machine". The $5000-$8000 machines seemed like an incredible amount of money for a machine. So instead, I wasted money on a couple machines that weren't meant to do the work I wanted them to do (even though they were advertised as such), and in the end, had to spend the money anyway.  It took awhile to fully realize that time is serious money and without the right machine for the job, I was handicapping myself by being able to do only what I could do by hand in a given amount of time, and that just wasn't enough most of the time.  Of the tens of thousands of dollars that I've spent on equipment over the years, there are only a handful of things that I feel were a waste of money or have not paid for themselves.  Incidentally, they are all things that were new innovations and marketed to be a real time or labor saver. 

[Tejas]

Cordes sewing machines made in Australia might be the most expensive -- six figures I was told -- I've seen in operation. Here is a video showing four-point, three-step zig-zag. The rotating disk on top of the arm is a cam that is machined internally to provide the zig-zag cam surface, and that alone probably costs more than most otherwise expensive sewing machines.

 

[Wizcrafts]

Here is a Cowboy/Hightex automatic sewing machine, sewing a holster. I'll bet this machine costs a small fortune.

Here is more information about these automatic patterns sewing machines.

[gottaknow]

Our luggage factory uses a similar machine to that one Wiz for setting all the leather straps and buckles on our luggage. It's made by Brother, who seems to be fairly aggressive in their automation work stations. If I recall, the price was less than I thought it would be. I have a Brother memory label setter that sets all of our different labels. It can be set for different sizes in about 10 minutes. It was about 7k and has paid for itself in less than two years. I've always been a firm believer in buying the very best you can afford. I understand this can be tough for hobbyist to justify, but if you're going to make a profit as you know, you really need good reliable machines. 

Regards, Eric 

[graywolf]

Kind of interesting the way this is going.

I think my point was that a machine that makes you money, is actually free..

But, a hobby machine is expensive. Heck a $!00 sewing machine is expensive if it is not generating any income. Although a cheaper machine may save you enough that it is worth investing in, especially if you figure you time is free (and that does not mean worthless, just you do not feel you have to make a wage).

Anyhow, my original surprise that pretty damn good heavy duty triple feed sewing machines are a bargain compared to some, not Walmart type, home hobby machines still stands.  

[Techsew Ron]

11 hours ago, graywolf said:

I think my point was that a machine that makes you money, is actually free..

But, a hobby machine is expensive. 

Well said. And a hobby very often turns into a small business within 12-18 months of purchasing a machine.

[Colt W Knight]

I bought a used Con sew 206rb-1, and I was able to pay it off in less than a month making guitar straps and padfolios. It use to take me 5 hours of work to handsew a padfolio, and my hands would hurt for days. I can see a padfolio in 5 minutes now. Guitar straps in just a few minutes. Can't wait til I can order the big cowboy 4500. I want to use bigger thread

Edited July 18, 2016 by Colt W Knight

[CowboyBob]

Hey Colt we'll keep one ready for ya!

We had a customer that makes holsters & belts tell that the machine paid for itself in less than 3-months & he's had it now for over 3 yrs.

[Darren Brosowski]

It amazes me that people think a sewing machine that makes an income is too expensive when they are happy to borrow $35k or more to buy a car that looks pretty and does nothing but lose value and provide no income

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

16 minutes ago, Darren Brosowski said:

It amazes me that people think a sewing machine that makes an income is too expensive when they are happy to borrow $35k or more to buy a car that looks pretty and does nothing but lose value and provide no income

BINGO!! Or they drive up in a 60K pickup pulling a 50K trailer with a 30K barrel horse in it, but want an $800 saddle

[MADMAX22]

 

13 hours ago, Darren Brosowski said:

It amazes me that people think a sewing machine that makes an income is too expensive when they are happy to borrow $35k or more to buy a car that looks pretty and does nothing but lose value and provide no income

So a sewing machine that "could" make you money should be $35k? Not all of us drive 35k cars or 60k trucks. To me $2000 is a lot of money as I am sure it is to some of you.

 

 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

On 7/17/2016 at 2:25 PM, Tejas said:

Cordes sewing machines made in Australia might be the most expensive -- six figures I was told -- I've seen in operation. Here is a video showing four-point, three-step zig-zag. The rotating disk on top of the arm is a cam that is machined internally to provide the zig-zag cam surface, and that alone probably costs more than most otherwise expensive sewing machines.

 

In my 'other life' aside from the leather trade, we focus heavy on boat sail and repair sewing equipment.  We've had this machine here for sale, service, and we support it as well.  Here is a new Mini Maxi we brought in direct from John Cordes in Australia and sold new, I did the Efka DC1550 motor install and all of the electronics as this machine shipped to us sans motor.  I don't want to dig  into numbers, as they can fluctuate along with the money conversions at the time, but as a point of reference this machine here sold new for under $20,000.  John does sell and ever larger machine that sells for under lets say $40,000, but nothing more expensive than that.  The machine is essentially hand made, the quality is excellent, and the machine works.  People who know sewing equipment and see this thing coming can only stand in awe.  It's a real conversation piece when we have one around here.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

6 hours ago, MADMAX22 said:

 

So a sewing machine that "could" make you money should be $35k? Not all of us drive 35k cars or 60k trucks. To me $2000 is a lot of money as I am sure it is to some of you.

 

 

It's relative to the work you are doing; if you are pumping out high end racing sails, let's just say you can't do it with a $2,000 walking foot, even a good one!  

[Tulsaman]

My shop's largest machine is a Juki 1510-7  amazing over the 563's 111's etc. I know a large Awing company that won't buy a 1510-7 ..still uses a 563.. Fancy new truck tho... for the amount of sewing inches or miles we do in a year it's a wast to use no less then a lu1510-7 type for our Canvas,Upholstery,Leather Garment type work. 

  I wanted to up to the new M series Adlers ..they are $6000 now.. couldn't see it being my 10 yr old Juki would only be worth $1800 if that... Nice machine thou that M series..

[mikekratz]

I too am a Sailmaker for Doyle sailmakers and speak with John Cordes often. We have a Cordes machine at the shop in Ft Lauderdale and it's a dream to sew on. We also have a HighTex sailmaster and a ton of others in the group. 

[luxuryluke]

This thread is both incredible and insightful. Oh, and tons of wisdom. Priceless. 

[Bugstruck]

I recall a year or two ago coming across a German geotextile sewing machine, looking for something else. Was the size of a high ceiling room. All CNC programmable. Was circle sewing maybe 8 or 10 foot diameter tubing. Wish I would have saved the link. Most impressive I've seen online. Knowing CNC industrial equipment costs in wood processing, I would be surprised if that machine was less than $250K. The travel range or that sewing head was about unfathomable. Robotics.

Most impressive I saw in person was as a teenager. Emblem looms at Lions Brothers. The sound was as impressive as the many bolts of fabric they had spooled up. Fabric was on the vertical plane. If I recall correctly one side had a low catwalk. I do remember a tech fixing a broken thread on the fly and my Uncle explaining it saved that emblem. I doubt those big machines are still in operation, all seems to be sewn on multi heads with the fabric horizontal now. The newer emblem machines, even the 24 head are much smaller footprint than they had there at that time. Was quite the operation. Around 1973. 

[R8R]

Lol. Screen printing was my bread and butter for years. Basic manual machines start at $4k and full auto machines can easily go north of $100k (plus ancillary equipment like dryers, etc add tens of thousands more)

 

 

[chrisash]

I brought a Barudan 12 head 7 needle embroidery machine in the 1980's at £44,000 plus I think 15% vat back then with auto thread cutters and ran at 900 stitches per min, Very impressive machine. still probably the same price now days but with each head about 15 needle's and 1500 spm and some now about 20 head

Times they do a change