Consew 206 RB5's

[plasmaguy]

Hello all,

When did the 206's leave Japanese production and become manufactured in China? Does the silver versus white finish have anything to do with Japanese v. Chinese origin?

Thanks,

Tom

[CowboyBob]

I don't know what the big deal is where it's made?I think that unless your using it 24/7 in production you will never notice a difference.We sold some  new 206's to NASA over a year ago & they ordered 2 more this year.We also have canvas & upholstery shops that run them pretty hard & they hold up great.It has more to do with how they are oiled  than anything else.

Edited July 24, 2016 by CowboyBob

[plasmaguy]

Bob, how's my question of where these machines were built versus are currently being manufactured a "big deal". I'm new to this trade and trying to learn about these machines.

[OLDNSLOW]

Bob maybe thinking that your equating origin to quality!

[Uwe]

  On 7/25/2016 at 12:03 AM, OLDNSLOW said:

Bob maybe thinking that your equating origin to quality!

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Most people do correlate origin with quality, especially if China is involved. It's unlikely that Plasmaguy wants to make sure he's buying a machine made in China and avoid the ones made in Japan. Look at the tags and stickers, if it's made in Japan it will likely say so. If it's may in China it may also say so, or more likely not say anything about country of manufacture. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Uwe

[Uwe]

Perhaps Seiko needs to be mentioned in that conversation. Seiko manufactured the Consew 206RB1/2/3/4/5 machines for Consew. Consew does not actually manufacture anything of their own to my knowledge, they just sell things others make with their label on it. Consew started sourcing the RB-5 from a manufacturer in China at some point. When exactly that was may only be known by people who signed a non-disclosure agreement. 

If you want to make sure you get a Consew 206RB-5 machine made by Seiko in Japan, buy a Seiko STH-8BLD-3 instead (But I'm not even sure that statement is 100% accurate). The Seiko STH-8BLD-3 I have definitely states "Made in Japan" on the sticker.

If you want to make sure you get a Consew 206RB-5 machine made in China, buy one that was made within the last five years or so, to be on the safe side. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Uwe

[plasmaguy]

Uwe,

Thank you for the very informative history on these machines. The information your provided on Seiko was very interesting too.

I appreciate your time and effort.

Tom

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Consew 206RB-5s starting coming in around 2002.

[graywolf]

15 years ago stuff made in China was junk. 10 years ago stuff made for sale inside China was junk. 5 years ago stuff made in China for sale in 3rd world areas was junk. Add 35 years to those and you could have said Japan instead of China. Prior to WWII you could have said America.

The Chinese have fuel cell powered bicycles, for crying out loud. Have you seen any of those over here? Have you seen recent photos of Shanghai and Hong Kong? Those sure are poor people working for no pay, not!

And they claim these days is that there are more billionaires in Russia than in any other country.

While over here they think $800/mo SS is plenty for those useless old farts.

So many of us think it is still the 1950's when we had the highest standard of living in the world.

Just saying, the times, they are changing. What was true a few years ago is not what is true today.

[shoepatcher]

To answer the question, Seiko made Consew  machines for over 50 years in Japan.  They had an agreement that  they would not sell Seiko machines in the US.  Consew went bankrupt  in the early to late 90's.  A new Consew company was started but Seiko was not going to make their machines.  Seiko was going to market their machines  in the US under the Seiko name. Consew machines were taken to China for production.   The Chinese made Consew machines  were made off the original Seiko designs as well as updated.  Todays Consew machines are a good quality machine.  They may not be quite as good as the original Seiko built ones but they are still good because they are built on proven designs.  As long as they are built in a "A" grade manufacturing plant in China, they are good and dependable machine .  The 206 is a proven design no mater what the subclass.  The 441 is cloned by a number of Companies in China today.  Some are very good, some are boat anchors.

I think the view of new comers to the sewing machine market is that China machines today are inferior.  That is being proven to be less and less true each year.  The quality is only going up. Remember, Japan  made junk in the late 50's and early 60's and look at where they are today.  Consew is a good name in sewing machines.  It may not be Adler, but look at the cost difference.  Just so you now, most all of Adler sewing  machines are no made in the Czech republic and the parts company is in Romania.  Only one machine is made in China and that is a entry level  apparel machine.  All others are made in Europe and stocked  in Germany.

The Cowboy and the Cobra machines are both made in China and they are a very good machines and very good  value for the money.  Bob can tell you better than anyone that the quality has only gone up in the last 10 years.  Pfaff 335, 1245 and 1295 machines are all made in China.  That plant was set up by the Germans with German production machinery, German taught Chinese workers using the German production techniques.  They make a hell of the machine for the money. In essence,  China does make so good machines.  You just have to know what and where to buy.

glenn

[plasmaguy]

  On 7/26/2016 at 11:22 AM, shoepatcher said:

To answer the question, Seiko made Consew  machines for over 50 years in Japan.  They had an agreement that  they would not sell Seiko machines in the US.  Consew went bankrupt  in the early to late 90's.  A new Consew company was started but Seiko was not going to make their machines.  Seiko was going to market their machines  in the US under the Seiko name. Consew machines were taken to China for production.   The Chinese made Consew machines  were made off the original Seiko designs as well as updated.  Todays Consew machines are a good quality machine.  They may not be quite as good as the original Seiko built ones but they are still good because they are built on proven designs.  As long as they are built in a "A" grade manufacturing plant in China, they are good and dependable machine .  The 206 is a proven design no mater what the subclass.  The 441 is cloned by a number of Companies in China today.  Some are very good, some are boat anchors.

I think the view of new comers to the sewing machine market is that China machines today are inferior.  That is being proven to be less and less true each year.  The quality is only going up. Remember, Japan  made junk in the late 50's and early 60's and look at where they are today.  Consew is a good name in sewing machines.  It may not be Adler, but look at the cost difference.  Just so you now, most all of Adler sewing  machines are no made in the Czech republic and the parts company is in Romania.  Only one machine is made in China and that is a entry level  apparel machine.  All others are made in Europe and stocked  in Germany.

The Cowboy and the Cobra machines are both made in China and they are a very good machines and very good  value for the money.  Bob can tell you better than anyone that the quality has only gone up in the last 10 years.  Pfaff 335, 1245 and 1295 machines are all made in China.  That plant was set up by the Germans with German production machinery, German taught Chinese workers using the German production techniques.  They make a hell of the machine for the money. In essence,  China does make so good machines.  You just have to know what and where to buy.

glenn

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Glenn,

Thanks for the excellent history lesson on these machines.

I appreciate your time.

Tom

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

  On 7/26/2016 at 11:22 AM, shoepatcher said:

 

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Glenn,

I figure that everybody is going to read what I type here eventually, including our long time suppliers such as Consew.  Because of this, I'm very cautious about what I put down here, including here and now, and often will be limited with what facts I'm willing to put out there.  

Let me just say, Glenn's post is riddled with misinformation.  Consew was certainly never in bankruptcy, making it obvious they split with Seiko for reasons other than bankruptcy.  Say what you want about Consew but let's stick to the facts.

 

 

[graywolf]

This is the internet, facts are made up on the spot.

You are in the business. You piss off your suppliers, you are out of business. You piss off your customers, you are out of business. On the other hand, I have known people who's who purpose in life seemed to be pissing off as many people as they could.

I suggest that people take what they read as a suggestion, only fully believe what you have found out by trying it to be true. Even honest caring people make mistakes.

 

 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

  On 8/1/2016 at 6:26 PM, graywolf said:

This is the internet, facts are made up on the spot.

You are in the business. You piss off your suppliers, you are out of business. You piss off your customers, you are out of business. On the other hand, I have known people who's who purpose in life seemed to be pissing off as many people as they could.

I suggest that people take what they read as a suggestion, only fully believe what you have found out by trying it to be true. Even honest caring people make mistakes.

 

 

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Hope no offence was taken.  Even my Mom sitting next to me was like "Oh come on."  She has done business with them for one year shy of four decades.  Glad we can have an open discussion about things without seeming to piss at least you off.  All the best.

[graywolf]

Internet is an interesting place, isn't it?

I was actually agreeing with you, Gregg, not criticizing you.

I tend to be, especially on the web, terse. Maybe I should take the time to make sure what I type is clear. I took no offense at anything you said. Comment about facts was address to the apparently false information reported earlier in the thread, and I took it that he was just repeating something he had gotten off the web. My suggestion was based upon the experience that many things you hear or read are just repeated by some one who is repeating someone who just made it up because they thought it sounded good. Sort of like "Eskimos have 63 words for snow", the author of that actually admitted that he had just made that fact up out of thin air, although many repeat it as if it was "gospel". I myself have found that stuff I have read in several books by "experts" just did not work when I tried it myself, thus my point that one should check things out themselves before accepting them as "gospel".

And since I used it twice, maybe I should define "gospel". "Gospel", as I used it, means "the truly true truth" (GRIN).

As I remember it the original poster on this thread, asked when Consew started having their machines made in China. He did not indicate anything about good or bad, just curiousity. I also do not seem to recall that he ever got an actual factual answer to that question, but I may have missed it.

I hope this clarifies my point, and I am sorry I wrote in such a way that you, Gregg,  took it as an insult.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

  On 8/3/2016 at 2:46 PM, graywolf said:

Internet is an interesting place, isn't it?

I was actually agreeing with you, Gregg, not criticizing you.

I tend to be, especially on the web, terse. Maybe I should take the time to make sure what I type is clear. I took no offense at anything you said. Comment about facts was address to the apparently false information reported earlier in the thread, and I took it that he was just repeating something he had gotten off the web. My suggestion was based upon the experience that many things you hear or read are just repeated by some one who is repeating someone who just made it up because they thought it sounded good. Sort of like "Eskimos have 63 words for snow", the author of that actually admitted that he had just made that fact up out of thin air, although many repeat it as if it was "gospel". I myself have found that stuff I have read in several books by "experts" just did not work when I tried it myself, thus my point that one should check things out themselves before accepting them as "gospel".

And since I used it twice, maybe I should define "gospel". "Gospel", as I used it, means "the truly true truth" (GRIN).

As I remember it the original poster on this thread, asked when Consew started having their machines made in China. He did not indicate anything about good or bad, just curiousity. I also do not seem to recall that he ever got an actual factual answer to that question, but I may have missed it.

I hope this clarifies my point, and I am sorry I wrote in such a way that you, Gregg,  took it as an insult.

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Good stuff, never took any of this personal or insulting at all.  Pleasure to post here on the MB with you for sure!!!

[Tejas]

Quality matters.

I lived in Japan for about 10 years and was amazed at the quality of products in my local hardware store, and disappointed when I returned to the US and experienced what seemed to be a decline in quality, not because of US, European or Japanese products, but because of the unavailability of those products. Essentially, lower cost, lower quality products, aka Chinese products, drove out reasonable priced, good quality products.

Mazada Ford transmissions were a classic example that quality matters. Apparently American machinists set their machines at the closest tolerance and ran the machines until machine was at the least tolerance. Japanese machinists set the machines at the closest tolerance and reset the machines on each run.

To me, an indication of the quality of some made in China products is the quality of the documentation. Amazing that a machine might be cloned but the documentation not plagiarized.

http://www.specinnovations.com/ford-vs-mazda-transmissions-why-quality-matters/

[mikesc]

The Chinese manufacturers of anything make to a price, the price that the buying company is willing to pay, if the buying company doesn't want to pay the extra price for high quality, the Chinese ( or anyone else ) are not going to make high quality items only to be paid a low price..The Chinese can, and do make superb quality items, but they cost more than many companies are willing to pay, China is seen as "cheap manufacturing" that allows "end companies" to make high mark-ups, ( and thus bigger pay packages for the C suites in those end companies, and bigger dividends for the shareholders* ) in contrast, Japan is seen, as are Germany, Switzerland , The Czech Republic etc ( nowadays ) as "expensive manufacturing", and the number of customers that are willing to pay for that quality is smaller, most "end companies" would rather sell "clones" than "original", ( that makes the owners / C-suites / shareholders* more money for less outlay )..Very few of us ( and our customers ) value high quality enough to pay for it, very few people anywhere nowadays value the work of craftsmen and women or artists, more of the Japanese still do so..

I am reminded daily of the lyrics of this song..
"I used to work for Harvester - Don Henley"..
http://www.absolutelyrics.com/lyrics/view/don_henley/i_used_to_work_for_harvester

*In many cases the "shareholders" are investment funds and similar, whose C-suites get paid their bonuses based upon only short term gains, making and , or selling a high quality product is not their priority, but they do expect to get high quality goods when spending their own salaries or money, there is a dichotomy there somewhere..

Edited August 4, 2016 by mikesc