31-15 Roller Foot Conversion--parts don't add up!

[oxeyenyc]

Hello Leatherworkers!

From Pilgram Sewing Supply I bought the parts to convert my 31-15 to a roller foot (S-194 Foot bar, needle plate and feed dog).  The roller foot on the new foot bar is small (and doesn't swing open to the side), so I went to my local sewing machine repair shop and picked up a larger roller foot, which does swing open.  When I brought the larger roller foot home, I noticed that it doesn't seem to be compatible with the foot bar...is there something that I am not seeing?  Or is this new awesome big swivel roller foot not the right one for a 31-15?

Thank you kindly for your input!  Please see photos below (the larger swivel roller foot is pictured to the left, the smaller roller foot that came with the foot bar is to the right). 

All the best,

Dana P.

[Wizcrafts]

Remove your small roller foot and take it and the unusable large roller back to where you bought it. Ask for a large roller that has the same mounting bracket as the small one that does fit.

[oxeyenyc]

Hi Wiz!  Thanks so much for the reply!

The more I am looking at this, I am thinking that the new S-194 foot bar from Pligrim is unnecessary...I look at the foot bar that is already on the machine, and it seems to match up to the mounting bracket on the big roller wheel.  

I've attached a few pics (of the current foot bar and big roller foot) if you don't mind to take a look--I am trying to follow your instructions (below), but am having some trouble removing the screws so I've oiled em up and am waiting to give it another go!

Also, would you mind to tell me your opinion on the feed dog/plate combo that Pilgrim sent me?  The length of the feed dog seems small for the plate, but maybe it is ok?  I used to use a Consew 225 walking foot and just switched over to the 31-15...I'll be using it to stitch cowboy boot uppers!

Thanks again!  Really appreciate all of the shared wisdom

 

[oxeyenyc]

Success getting the large roller onto the existing foot bar!  So hopefully this thread might be useful to anyone who is looking to switch to a roller foot--you don't need to buy an entire new foot bar, even if someone on the other end of the phone tries to sell you one!

Now the only issue I am having is that I got the foot bar to move up (by loosening the screw and then loosening the screw on top of the machine...)but now it won't go back down!  I think I maybe loosened too far?  

(sorry for such a long thread, y'all

 

[Uwe]

The Singer 31-15 was not really designed to accommodate any roller feet, it seems. At least the parts manual for the Singer 31-15 doesn't show any roller feet options. Sometimes you get  lucky and a part designed for another machine fits and actually works.

I'm guessing that your big roller foot ends up being much taller than a regular foot, and the standard presser bar does not have enough of an adjustment range to accommodate the big roller foot. You may be out of luck making the big roller foot work with your existing presser bar, even though you can mount the roller foot.

Perhaps that is also why the original roller foot you bought came with a special presser bar to make it work. 

[oxeyenyc]

Hi Uwe!  

Thank you for including the link to the parts manual, that is pretty cool!

I was just able to make the final adjustment to use the original bar and the big roller--I completely removed the screw on the top of the machine and this allowed the bar to move up and down freely.  Now I just need to ask my neighbor to borrow his ratchet screwdriver in order to remove that back screw on the presser plate!  What a poor placement for that screw

 

[oxeyenyc]

oh boy...what an evening of trying to figure this out   I thought I should make one final update to this post, for anyone who comes across it in the future!

It turns out that the big wheel was too big to be adjusted close enough to the needle...so in the end, the kit with the small wheel seems like it is the way to go!

Thanks to everyone who weighed in!  

[dikman]

Co-incidentally I just this morning fitted my roller foot to the Singer 331K4. The foot assembly appears to be identical to yours (except it's black so probably goes faster ). The hardest part was getting the foot bar out so that I could clean off the buildup of grunge on the bar - all these other bits fell out when I removed it! Took a bit of tweaking to get it adjusted right but looks like it should work ok. The feed dog and needle plate look the same as yours too.

[cdthayer]

I have roller foot #12264, needle plate #5709, and feed dog #5708 on my 1939 Singer 31-15, and it works just fine.  I made no changes to the presser bar position.

For what it’s worth: I had a problem putting the same combination on my 1936 Singer 96-40 machine, and finally determined that the after-market lower thread guide (on the needle bar) stuck out and interfered with adjusting the roller to the dog.  Since then, I’ve turned the 96-40 into a darning machine with a different Ft/NP/FD combination on it, but now know why I was having problems with the roller.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[oxeyenyc]

It has been great to see and hear about how everyone approaches their roller foot conversions on the 31-15...in the end I brought the big wheel back over to the sewing machine shop and he ground down the edge of the bracket (the wheel touched the bracket otherwise when adjusted close to the needle).

So I ended up with the original flat foot bar, the big roller wheel, and the new feed dog/plate (part numbers 12836 and 12838).  I sent back the new footbar/small wheel combo (the wheel didn't swivel to the side which kinda bummed me out!...part number S-194, if anyone in the future might find this of interest

Thank you everyone for sharing all of your insights and photos!

[Darren Brosowski]

On 26/08/2016 at 10:41 AM, Uwe said:

The Singer 31-15 was not really designed to accommodate any roller feet, it seems. At least the parts manual for the Singer 31-15 doesn't show any roller feet options. Sometimes you get  lucky and a part designed for another machine fits and actually works.

I'm guessing that your big roller foot ends up being much taller than a regular foot, and the standard presser bar does not have enough of an adjustment range to accommodate the big roller foot. You may be out of luck making the big roller foot work with your existing presser bar, even though you can mount the roller foot.

Perhaps that is also why the original roller foot you bought came with a special presser bar to make it work. 

Not sure what you mean by the 31-15 "not being designed for" a roller foot.

Most machines take any standard high shank foot which includes the roller foot.

The special presser bar is the style used on the 31 class roller foot, roller feed machines and while not necessary is more solid than the screw on version

 

 

[Uwe]

The "it seems" part makes it less of an absolute statement. Perhaps I should have used "intended" instead of "designed."  What I meant was that in the SInger 31 class of machines, the 31-15 subclass was not originally configured with roller feet and no roller foot options were listed in the parts book. The 31-17 subclass on the other hand is configured with roller feet and drop feed and the 31-18 subclass has roller feet and roller feed. I suspect there's more to the 31-17 subclass than just the different roller foot.

Yes, you can swap feet/parts and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. In this case it kind of didn't at first.

If Singer had a specific roller foot in mind to be used with the 31-15, they probably would have included it in the list of optional parts. Instead they seemed (<- see what I did there?) to say that if you want a roller foot machine, you should use the 31-17 or 31-18 subclass instead, which were designed/intended for roller feet.

[MADMAX22]

Uwe do you know if there are any differences in the body casting? Just curious, looking at the different models and I dont decerne any difference so it would have to be a combination of parts I would think that would make up the difference between models so it "should" be as simple as getting the right parts. Atleast I would think.I am just curious because I would like to do the same thing to my 15 but would probably stick with a smaller roller. 

 

Forgot to add why the rough wheels, why not smooth? I was wondering if its just supplying pressure to the material but doesnt provide movement like a walking foot and smooth wheel should work fine but I have no experience with these. 

Edited September 12, 2016 by MADMAX22

[CowboyBob]

The roller foot that everyone buys for the 31-15 was standard on some 17 class,like 17-30 (I think) that have a higher shank,that's why you have to raise the pressure bar to install it on a 31-15.If your doing designs where you need to make tight turns the smaller roller works better & the larger roller is what the shoe people like to go over seams.

[Uwe]

1 hour ago, MADMAX22 said:

Uwe do you know if there are any differences in the body casting?

I would hope the castings are the same but I don't know for sure, sorry. Of the 31 class I've only seen a 31-15 in real life so far. Singer does not include the body of the machine in their 31 class parts diagrams. But even if it's the same basic 31 class body casting, the different subclasses may vary subtly in how they are machined and/or have holes drilled in different sizes and locations.

[Darren Brosowski]

There are differences in the body castings between model classes and even by factory and date.

The front of the upper casting is different on the walking foot machines to allow for the outer foot to move

Some of the 31 class walking foot machines from Kilbowie have more clearance under the head and are able to use the DPX17 needle but the US ones can't. That is only for the later machines (1950+) so I assume they had to make new tooling at around this time and decided to make some changes.

Obviously the lower casting varies on the bottom end and there are at least three variations-

Small shuttle

large shuttle

roller feed

There are multiple variations

 

[Darren Brosowski]

On 13/09/2016 at 1:54 AM, CowboyBob said:

The roller foot that everyone buys for the 31-15 was standard on some 17 class,like 17-30 (I think) that have a higher shank,that's why you have to raise the pressure bar to install it on a 31-15.If your doing designs where you need to make tight turns the smaller roller works better & the larger roller is what the shoe people like to go over seams.

As an engineer I cannot understand why everyone copies the 17 class roller foot when in 99% of applications it goes on the straight sewers.

[Darren Brosowski]

On 13/09/2016 at 1:35 AM, MADMAX22 said:

Uwe do you know if there are any differences in the body casting? Just curious, looking at the different models and I dont decerne any difference so it would have to be a combination of parts I would think that would make up the difference between models so it "should" be as simple as getting the right parts. Atleast I would think.I am just curious because I would like to do the same thing to my 15 but would probably stick with a smaller roller. 

 

Forgot to add why the rough wheels, why not smooth? I was wondering if its just supplying pressure to the material but doesnt provide movement like a walking foot and smooth wheel should work fine but I have no experience with these. 

There are rubber versions available

[needlesin]

On 8/26/2016 at 2:27 AM, oxeyenyc said:

Success getting the large roller onto the existing foot bar!  So hopefully this thread might be useful to anyone who is looking to switch to a roller foot--you don't need to buy an entire new foot bar, even if someone on the other end of the phone tries to sell you one!

Now the only issue I am having is that I got the foot bar to move up (by loosening the screw and then loosening the screw on top of the machine...)but now it won't go back down!  I think I maybe loosened too far?  

(sorry for such a long thread, y'all

 

Hey i know its been a very long time but can you put some instructions on how to remove the swivel roller from its foot bar?
from my understanding its holding in place from a captive T shape inside the notch of the foot bar.