Singer211U567B

[georgeandgracie]

Here are pictures of the thread path. That last thread guide before the needle bar is of a type I haven't seen before, so I may have routed the thread incorrectly there. However, it seems like there was some of this gook on the feed dog when I first got the machine from the dealer.

[mikesc]

Ok..Yesterday took longer than expected , ( looked in , saw your post but was too tired to be typing ) and was out again today..now I an hour or so to catch up on "web stuff" ..

First..your top picture..showing what we could call "the last element in the thread path before the thread gets to the needle area"..or "unusual thread guide" for short..I have only seen these sort on twin needle machines ..each thread passes to a separate side of the middle screw..

I have seen them called "butterfly" thread guides..

I think that it may have been "cannibalized" from another machine..to know if the problem comes from there.

Pull out some slack thread from between it and the felt pad above it..about a half a yard.. hold the thread ( pinch between thumb and forefinger ) above the "slack" you just made, just below where it comes out from the felt pad* ( the one that Singer say to lubricate via the oil tank at the top at the rear of the machine ) to the left of the take up arm..Now with the other hand, pull the thread ( still threaded through the needle ) to take up the "slack" that you made, this will pull it through that "butterfly thread guide", watch there closely, is it stripping fibres, even a little, does the thread enter clean and smooth, but come out slightly furry , does it feel like it is abrading and not merely guiding ?

* The "shiny clip where the oiled felt pad lives is your machine is identical to the one on mine..

They look nothing like the Singer diagram, the Singer diagram shows what looks like a wedge shaped felt pad, totally enclosed in a metal wedge shaped box with the "apex" ( yes normally we say apex for the top, but, work with me ) pointing downwards towards the needle..doesn't help at all when they draw one thing and then fit a different thing..

They say that the thread should pass at the back of this felt pad, between it and the metal clip, up close to the machine casing, and that the oil reservoir should be set to allow the felt pad to be permanently oiled and so the thread picks up the oil..

Maybe that works if the machine is running at 3500 to 5000 stitches per minute, in that case any given yard of thread which passes will get only a minute amount of oil..

However , running the machines as slow as we do for leather ( or in your case waxed canvas ), during any given  minute lot less thread ( shorter length of thread ) goes past the felt pad, consequently it gets a lot more oil, it gets saturated with oil, and messes up the work and the mechanism around the hook and the feed dogs, if the thread is also being subjected to any abrasion, however slight, that makes for sticky oily gunk where it shouldn't be, and eventual hook jams..

I shut off the oil flow from that tank  on mine completely, I pass the thread at the front of the felt pad ( but still behind the part of the "clip" nearest to me,  and at the beginning of a sewing day, I put a drop of oil on the pad manually..this works fine..no gunk, and when the foot is raised ( so no tension on the discs ) the thread pulls freely through all the thread path and through the needle..

A shame that the second picture you posted wasn't as big as the first one, and was "head on" as I can't actually see if you have a felt pad in there, nor whether your thread is passing at the front or the back of the felt pad ? , if there is any felt pad there ?..

 

btw..One other thing the first thread guide ( the bar with holes in it ) above the thread tension system and slightly to the right, almost above the part where it says "Singer" ..on yours you have it set at about 5 minutes past 3 o' clock..and the thread makes a steep angle as it exits the last hole and goes to the tension discs..mine I keep set at about the 7 o'clock position..ie ; the pivot point is at the middle of the clock face and the bar is pointing downwards at around the 7 o'clock position, this means that the thread enters the first hole from the bobbin on the thread stand at almost no angle at all and leaves almost in a straight line, no impediment to the "flow"..the way yours is set the thread goes through the holes entering and leaving a some quite tight angles, this can add to any abrasion if everything is not mirror polished , and it adds to tension even before the thread gets to the tension discs, these guides with the holes in are to guide the thread and to help correct any "kinks" that it might pick up as it comes off the bobbin , they are not meant to be used to put additional tension on the thread ( however small the amount it may be ) before it gets to the tension discs..But I know there are a lot of videos on the web that would lead you to believe otherwise..Anything that introduces tension or slows the thread up other than the tension discs is a bad thing..all the "bright wear" is meant to guide only. Only the springs ( take up spring etc ) and the tension discs are meant to "control"..

 

Oh ..and before I forget..there is at least one guy on the web ( I think it is atlaslevy, he of the videos that make you feel sea sick )..that says that you should pass the thread ( as it comes off from between the tension discs ) over the little pin that is at the bottom right of them and which "bites into them" in a tiny crescent, and then on down and around the check spring discs control area..Well he is 100% wrong, do not do that..that little "pin" is there to stop the tension discs spinning ( "revolving" ) and so not keeping the thread under constant tension..you do not pass the thread around this pin you go straight down out of the tension discs to the check spring discs and around them and up to the check spring.. You may be doing yours the correct way, but I can' tell from the photo you posted above, so just a "heads up" in case.

 

HTH M

I'd be interested to hear from Eric and or Wiz re the "auto thread oiling" in an industrial high speed setting versus the "manual oil drop" in a slow speed leather sewing setting..

Edited September 4, 2016 by mikesc

[brmax]

I'm not familiar with this view or haven't read the post very well, but is the bobbin basket always set in this position must have slipped by.  Seems a bit different than other machines I see setup, as having the basket tab at 9:00 or 3 for a double needle.

On the other hand that machine looks new, or very good shape.

Good day

Floyd

[mikesc]

Can't see where you got anything about the setting of the bobbin basket tab  ( what is a "basket tab" ? ) from any of the posts in this thread there Floyd..

Enjoy your Sunday anyway :)..I'm going to start cooking dinner and  mix me a sunrise and break open a pack of beer..raises glass to you

 

I forgot to reply to dikman..sorry / mes excuses yes..I think the only real differences are the internal lubrication ( not talking about the "thread lubrication" here ) is automated on the 566/7..and that the min stitch count is 3 spi on the 566/7 as opposed to 5 spi on the 166 etc..3 spi I'd like very much ..I might see if there could be a way of "tuning" my 166a to get longer stitches at the extreme end of the count..given that the reverse stitch spi count of the 566/7 is 5 spi, the same as mine it just might be possible, if it was totally different internals to drive the feed dogs ( which governs forward and reverse spi *) it wouldn't strike me as possible , but if they used a "tweaked" drive to get the extra length on the 566/7 it might be worth a try..

Not that I'd need the extra length stitch, but the urge to tinker and tweak sometimes sneaks up on one in the wee small hours

 

*Yes..terrible oversimplification in that phrase, but you get where I'm thinking ..

Edited September 4, 2016 by mikesc

[georgeandgracie]

It does not feel like the butterfly is abrading the thread.

The felt pad was taken out in the picture you refer to - the thread was simply going through the felt pad's clip. Guess I could put the pad back in - there is no oil in the oiler anyway.

That "first thread guide" was set that way when I got the machine - just a few days ago. It is not a very old machine but it is not new, either. Except to me. How does this orientation look to you? I just aimed the opening of the little tube toward the nearest hole in the "second thread guide" - that black thing.

 

[mikesc]

That is the way I orient mine ..it works..

Put the felt pad back in if you have it ? pass the thread between the front of it and the clip ( that will stop it "flapping about" ) put a drop or 3 ( don't saturate it, despite what Singer say  ) of oil onto it right next to where the thread goes through 'twixt it and the clip..

Now turn the machine by hand , look for where ( if anywhere ) the thread appears to suddenly get a little furry like it went past a surface with a burr..

Ok ..off to stop the Satay from burning 

[dikman]

Mike, I fiddled with my 211G166 but the best I could get was about 5spi. I think the feed eccentric would need to be changed completely to get any better - and that's not a job I intend taking on! My 111WSV77 will give me 3 1/2 spi, even though the number wheel is only marked down to 5. Looking at 3 1/2 spi, however, with #138 thread, looks a bit "odd" to me and I don't think my '77 will handle heavier thread.

[brmax]

In your first photo posted the bobbin case/basket that holds the bobbin is not in proper position, it may be while your adjusting I don't know, but its wrong and should be major reset before running. Thought id mention on the way through.

If you take a look in Constabulary's pdf operators file 1 page, right side. Also it does not show the same or "case" latch in your file Mike.

So if this is during your adjustment disregard, sorry and good day.

Floyd

[mikesc]

Ah..Now I see what you mean Floyd, yes the bobbin case is rotated CW by about a 1/10 of a turn too far the tab should be just behind the needle hole in the feed dog plate, and the "point" ( triangular part ) of the bobbin case should be approaching the "finger" from the right side of it, not past it to the left of it near the needle..good catch

btw..Floyd..When I realised what you meant, I turned around to check mine, and found I had about 12 inches of 92 thread caught up around mine that I hadn't noticed, it was just at the point of where it was getting caught between the case and the hook and would have caused a jam ( and I'd have had to unmount the case to clear it ) as it was , I was able to catch the end with tweezers and slowly pull it all out, wouldn't have seen that if you hadn't made me look..Thanks  

My file shows a bunch of stuff that isn't on my machine, but the actual case and hook ( apart from the case and hook and bobbin may be the larger size on georgeandgracie's machine, haven't seen the bobbin yet to know, the larger ones have holes all around ) and thread guides , tension discs etc are the same as on the photos.

Edited September 5, 2016 by mikesc

[gottaknow]

Just curious this morning why a machine dealer would sell a machine that is supposed to be a needle feed when it's actually a walking foot. Not even close to the same as a 211G157 needle feed. I've been under the weather, so somewhat absent, but sheesh. 

Regards, Eric