Lining opinions

[CaptQuirk]

Got a question or two for the more experienced holster makers. When you are making a holster, whether it is a skirted holster, or one with a back piece that goes much higher than the front, where do you stop the lining? Say the back becomes a belt loop, do you line all the way to where the loop terminates?

 

And along the same line, if you don't line it, how would you finish the flesh side?

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

http://leatherworker.net/SimmonsHolster.pdf

Jim Simmons has a pretty good pattern and talks about linings in it. That may help.

 

[CaptQuirk]

Red Bear, Yeah I actually have that PDF, and it looks like the whole skirted holster has the lining. Wasn't sure if that was the norm, or just his preference. I am working on a modified version of the skirted holster, where the holster hangs low (about 3") and the skirt is nothing more than a belt loop. It didn't seem right to only line up to the bend, and didn't make sense to stop it before the loop either. But it seemed like it wasn't right to line the unseen flap in the back either.

[JLSleather]

Lining over the top like that, then yeah -- line it all the way out.  Look a bit cheap and unfinished if not.

I have, however, made lined "pancake" holsters, where the lining stopped at about the belt slots on teh sides (didn't go all the way to the edges).   Didn't see the point of gluing a lining just so you could skive it back off.. so I tapered the edges of the lining down to feather edge, and then glued in between slots. Once the 'pancake' is sewn, the inside is fully lined and the edges arent' bulky.

 

[CaptQuirk]

@JLSleather-, I thought it looked unfinished too, but like i said, it also doesn't make sense to line the unseen back, but it does look better. As for dressing the unlined flesh, what do you do? I've tried sanding it down and dyeing it, but it is hard to get a clean and smooth finished look.

[JLSleather]

Lining not always about visible.  But i don't 'finish" the flesh side (though I sometimes dye it).

 

[bikermutt07]

I thought using to thinner leathers cemented together was the best idea I've heard. Then you have a finished grain side all the way around.

Just my opinion.

[dikman]

As JLS said, it will look "unfinished" (and a bit cheap) if the lining suddenly stops. It might not normally be highly visible, but if someone gives the work a close inspection and sees the lining only covering part of the work they might think it's a bit "amateurish"?

As for finishing the flesh side, the wooden burnisher I made (fits on my grinder) has a fairly wide flat area and I've experimented with running the flesh side over it, either dampening it slightly or applying a bit of wax, and it does give a slightly flatter finish with a very slight sheen. But normally I don't do anything to the flesh side other than stain it.

[JLSleather]

11 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

I thought using to thinner leathers cemented together was the best idea I've heard. Then you have a finished grain side all the way around.

Just my opinion.

Makes for a firmer, more solid project, too.

This is what I mean -- not just about what "shows".  Lining - in this case a holster skirt - helps retain the shape.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by JLSleather

[Josh Ashman]

I either line the whole thing or not at all. JLS's comment about doing a partial lining on a pancake type holster does make a lot of sense for that particular style. As for finishing the flesh side, the better quality leather you use the nicer the flesh side typically is. Also, the better parts of the hide will typically have a better flesh side. If you're using strap leather that has been gauged down to a specific weight the back should be pretty dang smooth to start with, skirting leather is a little more course as it hasn't been split but that would make for a pretty thick holster. You can burnish the flesh side if you feel it's needed. Just get it damp and take a glass slicker or piece of canvas/cordura to it. When I do this I do it over my tooling slab.

Anyway, since pictures are sometimes helpful, here's a pair of unlined holsters where the back forms the loop.

And here is a lined one.

The unlined holsters (and cartridge belt) was 10/11 Hermann Oak and the lined Threepersons was 8 oz with a 4/5 lining, both Hermann Oak. Using quality leather helps get a quality product. 

Good luck with your holster,

Josh

[CaptQuirk]

That is some beautiful work John. Is that shoulder cuts? And what about the cartridge loops?

[Josh Ashman]

Thanks! I buy leather by the side and keep most everything cut from the "top" 2/3's. I'll use the bottom 1/3, aka the belly for linings and the like to some small degree, but I try to be careful as using inferior leather can ruin a whole project. I don't remember exactly where those would have been cut from but more than likely they're from the back or the butt. The cartridge loops are from 4/5 leather, again I try to stay clear from the belly as it's too stretchy. Especially in that light of a weight. 

All the best, Josh

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

On 9/4/2016 at 10:14 AM, CaptQuirk said:

Red Bear, Yeah I actually have that PDF, and it looks like the whole skirted holster has the lining. Wasn't sure if that was the norm, or just his preference.

Figure 32, page 12 Jim stops the lining just above the loop, as seen in the picture. He says it is more trouble than it is worth to line the skirt all the way down.

Josh, Jim, and JLS (and more than a dozen others here...) are all painting masterpieces. I'm still coloring with crayons.

I want to do a lined Mexican Loop holster, but I'm going to stop my lining where Jim stopped his. The loop still give me troubles with just one layer. If I were to go all the way down the skirt, I would probably cut a window in the lining to encompass both loops and skive in around the inner edge so the loops themselves are one layer, but the skirt still is beefy.

But, if you are just doing the skirt as a belt loop, like you said, I don't see any reason not to line it all the way down either.

Show us what you come up with!

[JLSleather]

I might be missing something in that thing Jim put in there.  I've looked at it before, but didn't really pay too much attention just yet.  So then, in that figure 32, he's talking about NOT lining the entire skirt, but he's actually making an UNlined holster.  And when he gets down further, making the LINED holster, it looks like he DID line the entire skirt (figures 87 and 89).

Now, a guy could stop the lining where he talks about back at fig 32... and the stiffness I was talking about would be aided by the shaping of the skirt around the body of the holster (much like forming and putting bends in sheet metal makes it more rigid).  If you taper the edge of the lining (where it stops) and sew around it as suggested, that would work.  The "stop" would be hidden on teh back side, and the stitch line would be hidden behind the bucket of the holster.

Hopefully, though, you're  burnishing those slots whether they are lined or not - making that part of things a non-issue.

Adding - as for "masterpieces"... It's getting that season where time is at a premium... but in the world of holsters made for revolvers, I try not to miss too much of what Josh is talking about

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by JLSleather

[bikermutt07]

"Josh, Jim, and JLS (and more than a dozen others here...) are all painting masterpieces. I'm still coloring with crayons."

I'm still scribbling on concrete with rocks.

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

1 hour ago, JLSleather said:

And when he gets down further, making the LINED holster, it looks like he DID line the entire skirt (figures 87 and 89).

He did here, because the holster (in those figures) is held to the skirt with the strap mount, not the Mexican Loop. He switches back and forth between holsters throughout the directions depending on what he wants to show.

I may do that version instead of the Mexican Loop... less fiddly-bits.

[JLSleather]

Right you are -- I didn't go down far enough to see that.  Actually, I've done it both ways, and I prefer the lining on the ones where the strap is  added separately (no loop).  The lining helps the skirt to remain flat (or, if you like, with a slight curve put in when you line it).

 

[Craig44]

I don't do linings as I don't particularly care for them. Pig skin would be my choice but it tends to wear out before the rest of the holster. I completely dye, burnish and finish my flesh sides as seen here. They're almost as smooth as the hair side.