Mystery Machine

[mikesc]

The Belgian guy I spoke to ( haven't had time to phone him back yet, I've been out since this morning ) had his wife's machine on sale at €150.oo , but it was not as good condition as either of yours, didn't actually say if it worked or not..yes, highly likely that some manufacturers in the early days bought up their smaller competitors and then made "frankenbuilds" depending on what was on the newly combined shelves..

re the threading wire, my 29K came with one, already "a win" right there ( the people I bought it from had no idea what it was or how the machine worked, they'd inherited it, from the woman's grandfather who as a cordonnier / cobbler had bought it new in 1929) ,I've seen some people in France use a bicycle spoke with a notch cut in the end like you did with your welding rod.

[shoepatcher]

guys,

I think this is a "Politype" sewing machine.  I have one in storage but have not been able to get to it to see what is different on if any

glenn

[mikesc]

Glenn, previous thread , in which you were involved in 2014, here mentions "Politype"

and needlebar has this

http://needlebar.org/nbwiki/index.php/Emile_James

and this

http://needlebar.org/nbwiki/index.php?title=File:Politype.jpg&page=1

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by mikesc

[Yetibelle]

Nice pictures!  

[Harfindel]

I just got one of these from a guy near me.  Here are some pics.

He said he’s had it for about 40 years, and that he used it during that time.  Prior to that it was used by a company to sew leather mail carrier bags for the USPS.  It came with a handful of bobbins, shuttles, and about 40 needles.  It has a serial number on the main drive shaft, no. 1,013,901. 

As you can see, it looks pretty much identical to the machine in UP Frank’s original post here.  It also looks nearly identical to Uwe’s, and the one Cobra Tom had in this thread:

http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/41656-antique-bradbury-treadle-machine/#comment-259144

There is another one I have found out about through Facebook.

I was able to do some research on the machine.  Bottom line is, I am pretty sure both the base and head were made by Hengstenberg & Co., Bielefeld, Westfalia.  For now I date it to about 1910, but the design of the machine to the 1870's to 1880's.  I'll post another message with the research details, so you can skip them if you want.

The machine seems to be missing at least one part from the cylinder, I think the wax pot but on Cobra Tom’s perhaps something different.  It fits in the opening shown in the third photo.

I’d like to make a reproduction.  Can anyone help supply details about what the originals look like on theirs?

Mine does have a complete bobbin winder, though. I notice that Cobra Tom and UPFrank seem to be missing theirs.  If anyone wants a detailed description of the winder and its parts let me know.

  

[Harfindel]

Ok, here are the research details on the machine(s):  I apologize in advance if it is a bit over the top - I do this sort of research in my day job.

My machine is one a group of five nearly identical early “elastic”-style machines.  Other machines in the group are those of Cobra Tom, UPFrank, and Uwe, and one I have become aware of on Facebook. 

The machines in the group have features in common with each other (particularly the exact shape of the base castings, the driving arms and the casting of the head) that I have not been able to find in any other early elastic machine.  This includes all machines I have been able to find that were made by The Bradbury Company, Duerkopp-Werke AG, or Claes & Flentje OHG, as well as all the examples collected by Christophe Schiffman at:

http://schiffmann-orthopaedie.de/fussorthopaedie-beckingen-merzig-lebach/antike-schuhmacher-naehmaschinen/ (thanks Uwe).  

I think this shows at the very least that all four machines in the group were made by the same company.

Bases: The treadle bases of all four of the machines in the group are virtually identical.  They also are distinct from the bases of all the other elastic-type machines I have been able to find.

I think UP Frank is correct that the bases were made by Schmidt & Hengstenberg, and/or its successor company Hengstenberg & Co.  (Collectively “Hengstenberg”) Each base in the group has an oval center medallion with a crest of a two-towered castle, flanked by rampant lions.  In the gateway of the crest there are layered initials.  The initials are different between some of the machines.  Mine has the initials “AW”.  UPFrank’s, Uwe’s, and the one from Facebook all have “HC”.  I cannot quite make out the letters on Cobra Tom’s.

The crest is the trademark of Hengstenberg.  The castle and lions are nearly the entire coat of arms of the city of  Bielefeld as it was used in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.  This is the city where Hengstenberg was located.  The initials replace what in the city crest would have been a shield bearing  three chevrons, and identify the Hengstenberg company.  I believe that the initials on mine refer to the trademark “Anker Werke.”  Hengstenberg began using this tradename in about 1906. Earlier Hengstenberg & Co. machines used the “HC” initials, such as those on UP Frank’s and Uwe’s machines. Even earlier ones used a combination of “S” and “H”.

Examples of the Hengstenberg trademark are here:

http://needlebar.org/main/logos/hengstenberg/index.html

http://needlebar.org/main/logos/schmidt/index.html

These are from a logo directory buried pretty deep on Needlebar.org:

http://needlebar.org/main/logos/index.html

So it seems the bases of all four machines were made by Hengstenberg.

(By the way, there were other Bielefeld sewing machine companies that used the Bielefeld coat of arms as part of their trademark.  An example is the city crest modified by a script “S,” which was the trademark of Dürkopp-Werke AG at some point:

http://needlebar.org/main/logos/duerkopp/index.html

(As a result, the machine in Schiffman’s list that he attributes to Hengstenberg is a hard case.  The gateway of the castle on the base of that machine is filled with a shield bearing three chevrons.  This is simply the seal for Bielefeld, and does not necessarily identify Hengstenberg or any specific company in Bielefeld - there were 19 such companies at the time.  The base on his machine different from those of the five Hengstenberg machines we have identified here, and instead is nearly identical to bases made by Duerkopp.  I am not sure how Schiffman attributes his machine to Hengstenberg.)

Heads:  I think it is pretty clear that the head of my machine, as well as the one on Facebook, were made by Hengstenberg.  The drive wheel on the heads of both machines show an anchor.  See photo of mine below.

“Anchor” in German is “Anker,” which the reference in “Anker Werke.”  The Hengstenberg company eventually renamed itself to Anker Werke.  The anchor on the hand crank of the two machines (Cobra Tom's too?) is a version of the anchor used by Hengstenberg as a trademark:

http://needlebar.org/main/logos/hengstenberg/index.html

The hand crank on my machine, and the one on facebook also have reproductions of industrial fair medals (London 1862, Paris 1867, Vienna 1873) that do not apply to Bradbury, so the head clearly was not made by that company. 

Since the handwheel on Cobra Tom’s machine is apparently the same as mine, and the rest of his head is virtually identical, I think the head his machine was also made by Hengstenberg.

As for the heads in Uwe’s and UPFrank’s machines, given that they are so much like the other two, I think we can say those heads are by Hengstenberg, too.

I think we can discard the possibility that the heads of the five machines in the group were made by another company and then re-labeled as Hengstenberg.  For this to be true it would mean that another company was manufacturing a head different than their others, of which no “builder-labeled” examples have survived, and yet five examples have survived re-labeled by only one company, Hengstenberg.  A very unlikely set of circumstances.  On the domestic side, the opposite was happening: Hengstenberg was supplying machines to others, who distributed them under their own labels.  Plus, there are records of Hengstenberg exhibiting and winning medals with their own elastic-style sewing machines in the 1880's.

Here is an excerpt from The Sewing Machine Gazette and Journal of Domestic Appliances, Oct. 1, 1881, that discusses the Hengstenberg Elastic.  Unfortunately there were no engravings to go with it.  Note the reference to industrial prizes, which match the medalions on the hand crank:

    “A GERMAN SEWING MACHINE MANUFACTURER. 

    “One of the large establishments for the manufacture of 
    sewing machines in Europe is that of Messrs. Carl Schmidt 
    and Hengstenberg, of Bielefeld, and for whom Mr. W. Bens- 
    cher, of 44, Fore-street, London, is the agent for England. 
    They were established in 1868, and the average output of the 
    concern is some 5,000 machines annually. 

    “The most important machine made by this firm is a Circular 
    Elastic Machine for shoemakers, which has received first prizes 
    at exhibitions in London, Paris, Vienna, and Prague. 

    “The Circular Elastic Machine is beautifully made and 
    finished ; the shuttle is constructed on the self-acting principle, 
    the tension being regulated by means of a small screw. The 
    machine has an arm 38 centimetres in length. The machine is 
    made in two sizes, one for ladies' and children's work and the 
    other for men's, the arm of the first named being much smaller 
    round. It is very simple in its construction, has evenly 
    balanced working parts, and combines elegance with strength. 

    “The Column Machine is admirably adapted for leather work, 
    especially for harness making and all saddlery purposes, and 
    no better machine could be selected by the portmanteau and 
    leather bag manufacturers, being very powerful, light running, 
    and specially constructed for the purpose. 

    “Messrs. Schmidt and Hengstenberg are also manufacturers 
    of the Saxonia, a well-known and favourite hand lockstitch 
    machine, and also of other imitations of the Singer Machine, 
    both hand and treadle, in ‘family’ and ‘medium’ sizes.

    “The sample machines we have seen, shown to us by Mr. 
    Benscher, are all beautifully finished and work with ease and 
    speed.”

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Harfindel

[HatoriKun]

On 14/9/2016 at 0:20 PM, mikesc said:

I just spoke on the phone  with a guy in Belgium who's wife put up a similar machine ( it has much more wear on the hand wheel , so no picture of the factory visible, and the crest with the lions and the castle entrance is not exactly the same ) for sale last year..The crest part on his says "SCHUTZ-MARKE" which he thinks is the name of the company who made it ? I think ( my German is not very good , I lived there, JHQ (Joint Headquarters) Rheindahlen when I was very young in 59 and again in 62, and have forgotten almost all of it, must re-learn it someday )..but I think that "Shutz- marke" means something like " trademark" or "marque déposé" ? Anyway he is going to ask his wife if they still have the machine ( imagine how many machines they must have for him to "not be sure if they still have a particular one around", they must have nearly as many as shoepatcher or singermania ..If they do, he'll scrutinise it it more closely, I'll be phoning him gain later today to see if there are any more details forthcoming, meanwhile here is the photo of the crest area featuring two lions rampant and again a castle entrance, but with a band of decorated work in the form of a letter S  ( made me wonder the "S" ) that they had in their original ad.

The "head" of his wife's machine looks to be the same as the one that UPFrank and Uwe have,

A little more researching around the web says that "shutz-marke" is definitely "trade mark" and that the S is / was  the logo of Adler..pic of a badge from another ( not a shoe patcher machine ) machine

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/79583-schutz-sewing-machine

This has the lions and the castle gateway, maybe (  UPFrank and Uwe ),  your machines are early Adlers ? before they put the "S" into their logo ?

Why would a company whose name begins with a "D"  for Dürkopp or an  "A" for Adler, use an "S" in their logo ?

A long article on the Dürkopp company here,

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/dürkopp-adler-ag-history/

says "By the 1880s several other Bielefeld firms were competing with Dürkopp", maybe the lions and castle entrance is the coat of arms for the town of Bielefeld ? So the machine -( of UPFrank and Uwe ) maybe came from some factory there, but maybe not Dürkopp ?

 

You will find logo That will look the same. Some with D & S or S & H or just the D.

The reason for the S & D is because Carl Schmidt & Nikolaus Dürkopp started out together after they left Carl Baer & Heinrich Koch and designed their own machines. Later on Carl Schmidt left Nikolaus Dürkopp and worked with Hengstenberg. And finally Carl Schmidt left Hengstenberg to work for Singer company. Confusing ?

Koch & Co, Dürkopp & Schmidt, Dürkopp, C Schmidt & Hengstenberg and finally Dürkopp & Adler. It all started in Bielefeld.

 

 

[HatoriKun]

On 12/9/2016 at 4:42 AM, Uwe said:

Well, I have no idea what it is, but I do hope we collectively figure it out, because I happen to have one almost exactly like it. Yours is in nicer condition, it appears. On mine, the picture of the factory on the handwheel is from a different angle, too. 

It´s an Anker Werke.

Picture with the smoking chimneys are Anker Werke in Bielefeld (Hugo Hengstenberg & Carl Schmidt). Hence the C&H in the logo...

[Uwe]

Thanks for the update, @HatoriKun! The Anker website sure uses a nearly identical factory image that is on my machine in their scrolling banner images on their Anker history page. That settles at least my portion of the mystery machine. Yay!

[Phili222]

Hello leather works. I'm trying to rebuild this machine and am looking for a flywheel/pulley. And also the top pulley.

Text Philip  6086982316

[Constabulary]

Phili222 - I probably have the parts you are looking for but I would like to send you a PM with pictures and measures. I´m a cell phone hater and my fingers are not touch screen compatible.

Not sure if you have the bobbin winder and drawer for your machine - I have them too and I guess they are the same as for your machine

Seems you opted out sending you a PM so If you are interested please send ME a PM.

[councilman24]

think this is the one in the op. Hirth-Klause was the ancestor of Wolverine Shoe Company.  Apparently imported leather machinery.  Manual maybe dated 1898.  We found this link trying to find out something about this machine.

[shoepatcher]

Who has this machine.   I am interested in getting a copy of the Perfecto manual.

glenn