YER web site 'n'' stuff

[JLSleather]

Is it me, or does it seem like there are a lot of people lately with a "specialty" (to the left of your posts) with no examples or pics of their work ...

Doesn't need to be "staged" or even "professional" photos (in fact, I'll likely have a less-than-stellar opinion if it is-- and wonder what it is you're accounting for in your work).  

Why would someone go on about their work and not show it?  

[LatigoAmigo]

Very good question. From reading various posts on this site, some people seem to have trouble posting their photos.

[JLSleather]

Yep, true.  ANd if you have "tech" issues, that can happen.  But surely these folks have pics SOMEwhere ... I personally think your own web site is a good idea, but at the very least you'd think aguycould put a pic on a fakebook, or some such. 

Not always a tech thing, I don't believe.  SOme of these folks who don't proudly display the work seem to have no trouble uploadin a useless video

("aguycould" is minnesotan for suggesting a possible solution to a problem)

[MADMAX22]

I guess I should post up some of my work instead of pictures of old sewing machines I keep acquiring. Ofcourse pics of plain lined latigo rifle slings or some such really arent that interesting to display, now if I had time to do some big tooled album cover or hand stitch a really nice belt I would  probably post it. Just lucky right now to get some slings and plain belts ran thru the ol random pull up stitch 4500. 

[CaptQuirk]

I had a whole slew of pics on PhotoBucket, not leather, just stuff from life in the woods. Almost all of them are missing, and contacting their support is impossible. Seriously, they hide contact info, so that you can't reach them, unless you want to BUY some of their stupid stuff.

Anyways, when it comes to my leatherwork, I deal with local folks. I usually have at least one of my holsters in the car to show as an example. But, when somebody else talks to about my holster, there is nothing to show, unless they have already bought one from me. Word of mouth is great, but it really doesn't work. So, since one of my skills is web design, I'm in the process of putting my work online with contact info. But, it's been a while since I did any CSS style sheets, so it is taking a bit to knock the rust off. Still a work in progress, links and layout are in flux, but take a look ifn you want. SmokeWagon Leather

[JLSleather]

I lost some of the "early" work photos due to a house fire.  At least we had back-ups  of the family pics and video.  So now I have pics here AND at another location.  I certainly would not "trust" someone else to keep the only copy of my stuff.

 

[ConradPark]

I think a big issue, is the worry about copycats. It doesn't matter if others think it's not valid for a small time amateur to worry about this, but it's natural for people to be protective of their own work that they poured countless hours into. That it in most cases holds no commercial value for anyone else, is besides the point. And professionals are in most cases worried about copycats because there are actually reasons for it.

That people that actually DO share sometimes get less than grand response and sometimes even mocked for their effort - especially if it happens to be videos - hardly help. A bit more support and friendly encouragement would certainly help people to display their work more frequently.

[CaptQuirk]

6 hours ago, ConradPark said:

I think a big issue, is the worry about copycats. It doesn't matter if others think it's not valid for a small time amateur to worry about this, but it's natural for people to be protective of their own work that they poured countless hours into.

Yes and no. If it is the next big thing, like the George Foreman Grill, you get it trademarked. If it is something like our holsters and sheathes and stuff, how original is it really? Most of us are just making variations of something else anyways. And exactly how many people around the world are looking to buy that exact item? If people want it, and you promote it, sell it to them. If you have something that people want, how many are you actually capable of making anyways? 5? 10? 5,000? I think there is a little room for copycats.

[JLSleather]

Meh... I'm over it now.  Somebody wanna tell me how wonderful it's going, how they've improved, how they do it 'different".... whatever - if i can't see it, then I can't see it.  

No matter - not me they need to show it to.  Just tough to sell it consistently without someone seeing it.  

[Red Cent]

You.....want me.....to show you..........mine?

[LumpenDoodle2]

Ok then.  My humble contribution.

 

[RockyAussie]

And here is mine then. Laugh all you like I don't care. With Australia's gun laws this is the first time I have been asked to make a holster,rig whatever you call it and it is following the customer's rough pattern mostly. The leather is extra strong and waterproof and near impossible to wet and mould. I bought it for motorcycle tool bag use and was the only heavy stuff I had on hand in a hurry. Price was low. Excuses over here it is.

[JLSleather]

See, now aint that fun?!

Red - we done seen yer rigs around here... and I like 'em.  Never made one like that, but then I dont sass (much)   Still, the word comes to mind when I see your work is 'solid'.

LD:  Clean lines and consistent color.. what's not ta like?!@#!?

And RA - I gotta have my bullets the other way, otherwise I could function in that.  Still, 'all croc' woulda been kinda cool ... 

 

[cdthayer]

Ok, even though I’m not calling it my “specialty” now-a-days, I do claim to have tooled leather back in the 1980s.  I did, and here are some old photos from back around 1987 (29 years ago) of a belt that I made for Pake McEntire (Reba’s brother) and presented it to him at the dance hall one night in Foss Oklahoma.  He liked it!  And he even wore it for at least one set of his performance that night (I was too busy dancing with my wife to see if he wore it for all of his sets, but I have one photo of him on stage wearing it).  Ah, those were the days......

CD in Oklahoma

 

[Beret]

Well alrighty then....

Website!: http://www.bullyflop.com/

[Mark842]

On 10/20/2016 at 2:08 AM, ConradPark said:

I think a big issue, is the worry about copycats. It doesn't matter if others think it's not valid for a small time amateur to worry about this, but it's natural for people to be protective of their own work that they poured countless hours into. That it in most cases holds no commercial value for anyone else, is besides the point. And professionals are in most cases worried about copycats because there are actually reasons for it.

That people that actually DO share sometimes get less than grand response and sometimes even mocked for their effort - especially if it happens to be videos - hardly help. A bit more support and friendly encouragement would certainly help people to display their work more frequently.

Yep, a lot to this.

On 10/20/2016 at 9:11 AM, CaptQuirk said:

Yes and no. If it is the next big thing, like the George Foreman Grill, you get it trademarked. If it is something like our holsters and sheathes and stuff, how original is it really? Most of us are just making variations of something else anyways. And exactly how many people around the world are looking to buy that exact item? If people want it, and you promote it, sell it to them. If you have something that people want, how many are you actually capable of making anyways? 5? 10? 5,000? I think there is a little room for copycats.

Trademarks are for Logo's, slogans, business names, etc. Many small business that are pressed for money can't afford them right away. Your looking at roughly $500 for filing a trademark. When I started my business years ago with just me in my spare room and I had a business name I really liked. Took me two years to get to where I wanted to afford to trademark it. That's when I found out that someone else already had my business name trademarked. Curious, I went and looked at their product. Half of what they were selling were exact knock offs of my product. Wasn't really worried about the product because it was obvious they were being produced with crap leather and they had no foot hold in my market. So, new business name was needed and trademarked. As for protecting product, that is a patent. I hold several patents on products. The cheapest cost so far to patent a product was $900. The average cost about $2k and the highest I every paid was $3k. Keep in mind a large portion of that is non refundable filing fee meaning if your application gets denied for any reason you don't get it back.  Thank you very much for your application, have a nice day. Not exactly affordable for a small business starting out.

There are a lot of leather made items that I personally feel would be a total waste of time to patent because everyone and their brother make a variation of it. That being said there are unique items out there worth trying to protect. I've learned my lesson several times over on this.

And lastly there are some people in this forum of the opinion that the only product suitable for sale is the Bentley or Rolls Royce version of the product. They like to belittle other people who base their business on the fact that there are plenty of customers who can't afford or who don't want to afford a Bentley but would rather have a quality made Chevy or Ford. I can afford many Snap-On tools yet I own plenty of items from a well known discount tool supplier because I don't need Snap-On quality for the task or I just don't want to spend that much.

Personally, I think anyone trying to make a product regardless of ability and business knowledge is awesome for trying. At least they are not inline with their hand out. As for me, I'm sure many in this forum know my business name and products because I am all over the internet with the intent to do business. As for posting my product here...been there and done that under my old business name, explained above is what it got me.

 As for those that think protecting your product, advertising your business and being in business to make money instead of just making art is not worthy of your respect. More power to you, couldn't care less about your respect or whether or not you would be my friend or want to drink a beer with me. I'm in business to be successful, I'll gladly and do  make friends along the way but it is not expected or required.

While I don't like posting products in here I love the forum! Many great people in here and tons of knowledge of which I don't mind sharing.

[CaptQuirk]

15 minutes ago, Mark842 said:

Personally, I think anyone trying to make a product regardless of ability and business knowledge is awesome for trying. At least they are not inline with their hand out. As for me, I'm sure many in this forum know my business name and products because I am all over the internet with the intent to do business. As for posting my product here...been there and done that under my old business name, explained above is what it got me.

Wait a minute! You're not... the Shake Weighty guy, are you?

[Mark842]

Damn! you figured it out that quick! Now I have to hide again...

[CaptQuirk]

[JLSleather]

Beret -- I like it   But then, I've always been a dog lover, so you already had a leg up   Get it.. leg up....

Mark, you bring up a couple of points, though I admit I'm not entirely sure why. I mean, if you don't want to show a pic, then don't.  I wasn't necessarily talking about putting pics here (in fact, I suggested your own web site).  I'm simply saying that IF you are in business to sell it, then to sell it to me then I need to see it.  This could be done with a simple link (Beret did that nicely).

18 minutes ago, Mark842 said:

I can afford many Snap-On tools yet I own plenty of items from a well known discount tool supplier because I don't need Snap-On quality

I bought a no-name pneumatic stapler about 10 years ago, for about 40% of the Bostitch or the Makita.  Still works great.  They sold it to me by showing it to me.

20 minutes ago, Mark842 said:

At least they are not inline with their hand out.

I wouldn't bet your last dollar on this one.  LOTS of folks around leather -- well.. nevermind.. nothing will change and I'll just be irritated

22 minutes ago, Mark842 said:

for those that think protecting your product, advertising your business and being in business to make money instead of just making art

Surprising that you see "being in business" and "making art" as two different things.

For those who "just" make art, then I guess it wouldn't matter if someone saw it or not.  No reason to show it if you aren't trying to sell it.  For those "being in business to make money", how will i buy it if I haven't seen it?@!

[ConradPark]

The best thing about this forum is all the contributing members that spend every day commenting in the forums in a positive and encouraging way. Especially those that keep saying the same mantras over and over again. It spreads a warm feeling of a  positive attitude that I'm sure will continue to affect people in all kind of good ways. This is how communities are build and fellowship created. Helping each other and be happy for each others effort in a common interest. Thank you all for being such a good role models and great personalities. (the emoji I wanted to insert wasn't available. Probably for the best, as I'm sure someone would feel offended - oh, someone already is?! Doesn't matter, then!).

[CaptQuirk]

I am offended, that you would assume that I might be offended...

[Mark842]

48 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

Beret -- I like it   But then, I've always been a dog lover, so you already had a leg up   Get it.. leg up....

Mark, you bring up a couple of points, though I admit I'm not entirely sure why. I mean, if you don't want to show a pic, then don't.  I wasn't necessarily talking about putting pics here (in fact, I suggested your own web site).  I'm simply saying that IF you are in business to sell it, then to sell it to me then I need to see it.  This could be done with a simple link (Beret did that nicely).

I bought a no-name pneumatic stapler about 10 years ago, for about 40% of the Bostitch or the Makita.  Still works great.  They sold it to me by showing it to me.

I wouldn't bet your last dollar on this one.  LOTS of folks around leather -- well.. nevermind.. nothing will change and I'll just be irritated

Surprising that you see "being in business" and "making art" as two different things.

For those who "just" make art, then I guess it wouldn't matter if someone saw it or not.  No reason to show it if you aren't trying to sell it.  For those "being in business to make money", how will i buy it if I haven't seen it?@!

"Surprising that you see "being in business" and "making art" as two different things. " I do. I just consider the art the business and for the market I sell to I find the end product and the customers far more interesting than the leather product itself. If every business should only be validated by whether or not the product is considered art it really makes me wonder what the owner of Porta-Potty and countless other business had in mind.

For some the joy is in making the product. For others the joy is in building the business and having happy customers.

"For those "being in business to make money", how will i buy it if I haven't seen it?@!"  My product is for a very specific niche market. Posting it in here is of no interest to me because most people in the trade would make my product for themselves. They are not my target audience. My target is those that can't or don't want to be bothered to make it. If part of my business was selling patterns for what I make I would be posting info about them in here. I have no interest selling patterns.

[CaptQuirk]

If you are an artist, i.e., you make an artistic item. If you have people who like said items you make, and are willing to give you money, it becomes a business transaction. Making a lot of items, and are finding a good demand, it is a business. If you just do it, making artistic items, and don't care if anybody buys them or not, you just enjoy doing it... that is a pretty good thing in itself, and nothing at all wrong with that.

[JLSleather]

45 minutes ago, Mark842 said:

For some the joy is in making the product. For others the joy is in building the business and having happy customers.

Exactly.  So tell me again why we're discussing this?  I don't buy what I can't see.  You don't show me, because you don't want me to buy.  Where is the problem?

The "pet rock" sold MILLIONS of copies, at $4-8 each.  Then there were "imitation" pet rocks.  Then after some years, there was a "re-release" of the "original" pet rock   I didn't buy any, and I didn't sell any, so...  I did recognize that there were "knock offs" and that was largely due to the product being something that anyone could easily duplicate.  But I didn't care...