18th Century Leather Edge Beveling

[grdwire]

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

After countless hours of online research I can find nothing about 18th century (1720-1780) (French and Indian/Revolutionary wars) leather being beveled and burnished.
Was leather beveled and burnished back then, or was it just cut, sewn, and that was it; no bevel / burnishing of any kind? (Bags,straps,belts,knife sheaths)
Most leather items of that period made today, show an unbeveled, unfinished edge.

Have also inquired at Reverend's Big Blog of Leather but no help, as there time frame doesn't cover the middle to late 1700's, also Williamsburg, VA no reply

I don’t want to do a project for that time period with a beveled edge, and later to my embarrassment, find this was not an embellishment of the day. Any thoughts on this is greatly appreciated.

Thanks for time and help

Regards,

[AussieMade]

I have some contacts in the Historic Reenactment Groups here in Australia that study 18th, 19th century history. I will put the question to them for you if you like?

Cheers

Damien

[AussieMade]

Quote:

My first thought is that they most certainly would have done. Sharp edges can be uncomfortable, even through a layer or two of cloth. Also, if the leather was hardened, it could have cut that cloth. Rounding an edge is so simple and takes so little time, that there would be no advantage NOT to have done it.

 

[AussieMade]

Quote

There's more than one question in here. Bags, straps, belts, and knife sheaths are all very different things, made by different trades out of different materials. 

The biggest barrier to giving an answer though is that "leather" covers a large range of materials from different animals, of thicknesses that was tanned, curried, and finished in a huge variety of ways in accordance with the intended purpose. 

Two pieces of leather made for different purposes could have almost nothing in common save that they once graced the outside of an animal. Think about leather used for gloves and leather used for the soles of shoes. Both 'leather' but utterly different in nearly every physical property you can name.

Pre-industrial leather is also a very different material from modern 'vegetable' tanned leather that's been tanned using a short process in highly concentrated solutions of tanning liquids, so you can't extrapolate backwards based on the behaviour or modern leathers.

Most modern veg tan is machine thicknessed and has a highly corrected grain surface. If bought as russet it also tends to be quite dry because it's intended to be tooled or dyed and finished by the maker.

Modern leathers don't tend to come in nearly the range of finishes etc. that pre-industrial leathers did, and pit tanned leather that's been slowly tanned over the course of 6-12 months is a physically very different material than modern veg tan. 

Of all the expertly-made 18th century shoes I've seen, none have had any evidence of rounded edges, even along the topline.

 

 

[amuckart]

9 hours ago, AussieMade said:

Quote:

My first thought is that they most certainly would have done. Sharp edges can be uncomfortable, even through a layer or two of cloth. Also, if the leather was hardened, it could have cut that cloth. Rounding an edge is so simple and takes so little time, that there would be no advantage NOT to have done it.

 

That argument doesn't hold and it's based on a bunch of unfounded assumptions. Firstly that an un-rounded edge is "sharp" which they aren't and secondly that rounding an edge is simple and fast which isn't necessarily true. It depends an awful lot on the item, what it's made from, etc. etc.

 

The comment was made on FB by someone who isn't a leatherworker, so I wouldn't give it much credence.

Edited December 10, 2016 by amuckart
Conflated two posts.

[amuckart]

Edge slicking devices do exist in 18th century contexts, for example shoemakers used them for sole finishing on some work, but that doesn't mean it was a universal practice across all crafts that used leather as a material.

Try narrowing down your search to the context of the project you want to make and then go looking for references to the tools that would have been used to do the job. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by amuckart

[amuckart]

There's more than one question in here. Bags, straps, belts, and knife sheaths are all very different things, made by different trades out of different materials. 

The biggest barrier to giving an answer though is that "leather" covers a large range of materials from different animals, of thicknesses that was tanned, curried, and finished in a huge variety of ways in accordance with the intended purpose. 

Two pieces of leather made for different purposes could have almost nothing in common save that they once graced the outside of an animal. Think about leather used for gloves and leather used for the soles of shoes. Both 'leather' but utterly different in nearly every physical property you can name.

Pre-industrial leather is also a very different material from modern 'vegetable' tanned leather that's been tanned using a short process in highly concentrated solutions of tanning liquids, so you can't extrapolate backwards based on the behaviour or modern leathers.

Most modern veg tan is machine thicknessed and has a highly corrected grain surface. If bought as russet it also tends to be quite dry because it's intended to be tooled or dyed and finished by the maker.

Modern leathers don't tend to come in nearly the range of finishes etc. that pre-industrial leathers did, and pit tanned leather that's been slowly tanned over the course of 6-12 months is a physically very different material than modern veg tan. 

Of all the expertly-made 18th century shoes I've seen, none have had any evidence of rounded edges, even along the topline.

[Fowlingpiece]

Edge shave tools begin to appear in ads during the mid 1800s. There were edge irons, and edge burnishers etc. prior as well as edged leather goods such as harness and belting, etc. It is assumed the practice of edging with a piece of glass was done prior to the edging tools we a familiar with today. Apparently there were old timers who still preferred the glass method at the time R. A. Salaman wrote Dictionary of Leather Working Tools c.1700-1950.

If one is attempting to re-create the secondary items of a professional leather worker such as a harness maker in America during your period, rounding and burnishing edges is in my opinion justified.

Look at some of Stuart Lilie's work. He has probably got as much study of original pieces in his line of work as anyone I know of.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Fowlingpiece

[TinkerTailor]

This 17th century spanish colonial chest looks like it has beveled edges. No question, with carving skills like that if they wanted to they would have.

http://www.michaelbackmanltd.com/1101.html

 

[Sceaden]

It would also very much depend on what type the history of the item your trying to replicate is. A utilitarian bag made by and for a frontiersman is a totally different ball game than an aristocrats possibles pouch.