order right & left skirting sides?

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

21 hours ago, TinkerTailor said:

He told me the biggest problem with the young guys these days is they do not pay attention to which part of the hide the pieces come from and which direction they layed in the animal. Every part of a hide stretches different and shoes with pieces cut wrong will be crooked. Not paying attention to this means you will have much higher waste. Throwing out bad leather before it is clicked is cheaper than throwing out completed uppers because of an un-noticed flaw in the leather.

I have long said that "You either make it or break it at the cutting table", although there are certainly plenty of opportunities to "break it" at every stage of any type of leatherwork. Every piece for a saddle must be cut from a specific part of the hide, BUT hides vary from one to the next, so each hide must be evaluated individually. Likewise, while it is true that skirts may be allowed to run softer toward the front, I like to use a little better leather up front for a saddle with an inskirt rig, than if for a saddle with a plate or dee ring rig, so I don't always cut my skirts from the same place in the hide.  I normally (but not always) cut my fenders side by side to get them as uniform as possible. If I get a side that is better than average for stirrup leathers, then I may cut several pairs from it, which will likely mean that I won't get any large saddle parts from what's left.  I do a wide variety of work and normally have several different projects going at once, and rarely, if ever, cut a saddle strictly from two dedicated sides. If I was building only saddles, with very little "other" work, I might very well end up changing how I cut.  While I certainly monitor my waste, economy does not dictate how I cut. I cut each part from whatever leather I have at the time that best suits the part, and generally stock enough leather that I don't have to compromise in any way.

Cutting harness is not much different. Each piece must perform the job it's assigned, and calls for specific qualities from the leather. I laugh when I hear guys(usually guys who build saddles only) say that there can't be anything too difficult about building harness, it's just cutting up straps and sewing them together.  I'd bet that:  (1) these guys don't drive horses,  (2) have never seen a bad wreck caused by someone's inept harness making skills, and (3) have never seen a really super high end harness. Especially this last one.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Big Sioux Saddlery

[kseidel]

I always make my saddles from one right and one left side of skirting.  It is possible to make a quality saddle from two rights or lefts, however,  I prefer to make from matching pairs.  This is largely for the symmetry of the skirts.  It is especially beneficial when making in-skirt riggings and single rear skirts without jockeys.  I believe that the location of a part on a hide and its orientation has a critical relation to the quality of a saddle and how well it will hold up under hard use over the long years.

Keith

[Thor]

So @bruce johnson and @kseidel would you say that the tensile strength on a left and right side works in different directions, or how can I understand that?

[Squilchuck]

Thanks for the responses!  Guess I'll order right and left sides for the best cutting options. I'll have to ruminate over the rumen stretch theory.  Interesting! --John

[kseidel]

On 12/27/2016 at 0:27 AM, Thor said:

So @bruce johnson and @kseidel would you say that the tensile strength on a left and right side works in different directions, or how can I understand that?

I would not say the tensile strength is different from hide to comparable hide.  However, the strength varies throughout a hide.  Cutting one skirt lengthwise and another crosswise will most certainly affect the strength from one to the other.  Cutting riggings from different hides, but from similar positions and directions in the hide will have comparable strengths and is acceptable practice.

[Thor]

@kseidel thank you. I got that with area on the hide, just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. So if I get that right you would suggest to cut the left parts of a saddle from one side and the right side parts of the saddle from the other skirt side. Is that about right?

[bikermutt07]

I have no horse in this race and really don't know the first thing about saddle building. But I have been interested in this thread and thinking about it a lot. So, since this being the internet where I can pretend I know something, I will share my opinion.

A working a saddle is heavy and undergoes a lot of stress.

If we consider a full hide across the cow it will lay and stretch probably pretty evenly to the cows movement in somewhat of a symmetrical form.

When applying this mode of thinking to a saddle (remember I know nothing) it makes sense to use one left and one right side. This way as the saddle is strained (through work and wear and tear) the two sides stretch and settle into their lifelong positions in a symmetrical fashion.

If we (well y'all not me) build the saddle out of asymmetrical parts, it would seem that parts of the saddle would maybe stretch more in one area than the other. Eventually leading to an aged saddle that would be uneven and asymmetrical in the course of it's life.

This again is just an unknowing internet twit's philosophy regarding a masters craft that he knows nothing about.

Take it with a couple of grains of salt.

[kseidel]

On 1/14/2017 at 5:42 AM, Thor said:

@kseidel thank you. I got that with area on the hide, just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. So if I get that right you would suggest to cut the left parts of a saddle from one side and the right side parts of the saddle from the other skirt side. Is that about right?

Sorry for delay in response... I am not getting notifications on this post for some unknown reason.  Your assumption is incorrect.  Both fenders will cut out next to each other from the butt of one side.  The riggings come next to the fenders and mirror each other side by side.  Then one skirt.  The seat will cut out of the butt on the other side.  Then the rear jockeys nest to each other to match, and then the other skirt.  Both skirts are cut lengthwise on the hide and will be back of the skirt toward the butt of the hide, and bottom of the skirt to the back or top of the cow.  They will now be consistent in surface and have the best leather toward the back for consistent visual and stability of the back corner.  Front will have shoulder wrinkles running from top to bottom and are covered with the rigging. 

[Thor]

@kseidel no worries Keith, ever since I found my way to the fb groups I haven't been checking in here so often myself. Thanks for feedback and clarification!!!

[begrate]

I’m no expert saddlemaker, but I’ve seen a cow or two, inside and out.  I think most of what I’m going to say has been said, but I’ll repeat it to hear myself type.  A cows rumen is on the left, and there is an enormous amount of movement in the upper left flank.  That rumen can hold possibly 20 gallons of feed/liquid, or be close to empty, depending where the animal is at in their eating cycle.  In a breeding female, the calf lays low, and is pushed to the right by the rumen.  This puts most of the stretch in the right side down in the belly.  The left side expands and contracts daily, or more, where the right side would tend to stretch slowly as the animal grows, or it’s calf inside grows.  I would think that is the majority of the difference between the sides.  Most pattern layouts that I have seen show cutting pairs of parts from the same side if possible, but those pairs need to be placed on the hide appropriately.  Maybe fenders on the right side, as well as stirrup leathers.  Skirts on the left, as well as cinch billets.  Take your seat out of the left flank into belly, as this allows for the most compression and or stretch.  I’m not righting this as a hard and fast rule, more something to think about during layout.