Curious how you handle special order holsters

[CaptQuirk]

I'm not talking about finishes and the like, but holster molds or dummy guns. I have a handful of BlueGuns in my stock. When I get asked to do a holster for something different, I have to order the mold, or use their gun. Sometimes, the latter isn't possible. So I order the mold, and add a week to ten days to the completion time. How do you figure in the cost of the mold and shipping?

[bikermutt07]

I haven't done it, but I see it like this...

You can add a few tooling dollars to each and every order to compensate for having to buy a mold. This little extra will add up for future tool or mold purchases. Price of doing business.

But I wouldn't add the cost of the entire mold to one holster, because I will be keeping the mold for future use.

.02

[CaptQuirk]

7 minutes ago, bikermutt07 said:

But I wouldn't add the cost of the entire mold to one holster, because I will be keeping the mold for future use.

.02

I had to order a Polish P64 for a holster, and not likely to be a big seller. So, in that case? I mean, with the way that new models come and go, people tend to change tastes. Sure, there are the die hards that will always be in style, but you never can tell when you order a new mold, can you.

[OLDNSLOW]

Let me tell you a story, the mold guns are like tools as a diesel mechanic in the past before I went into management we responsible for buying our own tools.  We had to do that often as a bout every new model that came out the MFG's would use a different type of screw head or they would mix standard with metric and you just never knew what it was going to be, some companies might have been under a contract that would provide a tools allowance but most didn't.  Mold duns are just the same it is a tool, so in order to keep up you have to buy the mold.  Now here's my take on the situation, if you don't have that particular mold you can buy it and do the job and have the tool for future jobs or not buy it and pass on the job but asking the customer or letting them know that you don't have it and the fees you collect from them will be used  to buy the tool is what will take place and make a little less on the job, is the most favorable.  But to think that they should pay for the mold gun and the holster is not a wise choice, but it is your business.  If I don't have it I will let the customer know that and that I will buy the mold that is needed because you never know when someone else will come along asking for the same type of holster, same with mechanics tools you just never know when that tool will be needed again but you now own it and can do the job after maybe sitting in a tool box for a year.  This is just my own opinion I am sure those with greater experience will say I am all wet.  sorry for going on so long

 

p.s.

never sell your tools never know when it will be needed.

Edited January 23, 2017 by OLDNSLOW

[bikermutt07]

1 hour ago, CaptQuirk said:

I had to order a Polish P64 for a holster, and not likely to be a big seller. So, in that case? I mean, with the way that new models come and go, people tend to change tastes. Sure, there are the die hards that will always be in style, but you never can tell when you order a new mold, can you.

Buddy, from what I've seen that's just the nature of business. I work for a man that gambles on the future everyday. He buys pallets of tile, rolls upon rolls of carpet and vinyl, and probably has 200 slabs of granite. That's all gambling on what people "may" want to buy, not what he knows they will buy.

Of course we are talking a much much smaller scale here. But we can't take the job without the tools and supplies.

 Let's change the focus. Someone wants a non molded western holster for a particular model, say a navy colt. You have the pattern and plenty of veg tan. But he wants it out of Horween, because he read it's the cat's meow. Can you charge him for a whole shoulder plus the holster?

You'll be able to sell some of the left overs on later projects, so why pass the whole cost to him?

Here's a personal example: In my last business I bought out an "existing" company. Being a carpenter, I relied on my predecessors painting knowledge. I had to figure out in short order how to do a premium oil paint finish on new cabinets using an automotive spray rig without any experience. Luckily, Sherman Williams pointed me to an airless rig. That was 900.00. That helped, but we were working in cold conditions with oil based paint.

I fought that finish for weeks before my cabinet component supplyer just nonchalantly asked how was I flashing the oil based paints.

WHAT!?!??? 

Then he, not my predecessor, explained the process to me.

800.00 dollars later in infrared heaters and after three weeks in lost labor I had a finish good enough to present to my client.

I wasn't able to pass any if those costs onto my client, I just had to eat it.

After that project I switched to 100% acrylics and never looked back. I did several jobs with that spray rig before going out of business.

Maybe that example was too long. But, here I am three years later. I'm no longer in business, but I just used that spray rig (that I haven't touched in a year and a half) to do a 2600.00 job. 

Can I get an amen?

This side job paid for Christmas, is helping me send my wife to New York for a teacher's convention, and it allowed me to order a headknife from Knipknives.

I think the 900 bucks was well invested. Oh, and one of those heaters keeps my father in law's shop warm.

Sorry for the late night ramble, I'm going to bed.

[chiefjason]

I have a standing policy that I'll buy almost any mold gun for the guys on the gun forum I frequent.  I have a lot of them.  I have maybe 4 that have not paid for themselves in holsters.  A couple more that have just paid for themselves.  And I have bought multiple handguns that have paid for themselves in holsters.  It's a bit of a gamble.  If I have to order the mold I'm upfront about it possibly extending the lead time.  I tell them my lead time starts when the mold is in my hands.  I consider molds and guns part of the materials I need to do this.  

[LumpenDoodle2]

If you buy a blue gun for one specific job, you could alway try to recoup your costs over a bit of time.   Bang together some simple, but nice holsters, and put them up on something like ebay.

Better than pushing the costs onto the one customer, IMHO.

[silverwingit]

If you were a baker would you charge your first customer for your oven?

IMO, blue guns are part of the cost of doing business -- CODB. It's a common term in the business world. Calculating your CODB is a very valuable exercise. Understanding CODB is essential to a business owner's success. You should look it up if you haven't already. There are many examples on the web. You will be surprised at how much it costs to run a profitable business, even a part-time one.

Of course, there are many ways to start a business. Unless you're rich or have outside funding, you're stuck with what's called "bootstrapping" your business, another term common in business parlance. There are many ways to bootstrap a company. Funding it off your own back is usually an essential element. In this example, you need to "procure" by any means necessary the tools of the trade, leather and supplies. You will likely have to donate your own time and expertise and take money from your day job to but any necessary missing components. All the while so you can act like yours is a "real" company.

There are resources available to help you start your business. Many cities have business incubation "tanks," entrepreneur and venture capital clubs. There are organizations like SCORE (Senior Core Of Retired Executives) that donate their time to budding entrepreneurs. And last butnot least is the Small Business Administration. Your local SBA office has free counseling and referral services.

It's easy to think that all you need to make money doing leatherwork is a few tools and a little experience. But making money doing leatherwork is just like any other business. You need to learn how to be a businessman (woman) if you want to be successful.

At least that's the way I see it.

Michelle 

[JLSleather]

I'm with Ron -- tools are the maker's problem.  I have no trouble telling someone I'll have to wait for a mold - if I dont have that one -- or giving them the option to have their holster made somewhere else (and yes - I have recommended people who I thought they should contact).

If buying a mold gun for one job isn't "worth it" too you.. then don't do it.   I have told people 'thanks, can't help ya', and I have been known to make a holster for the price of the dummy, with the understanding that it will back up the time frame some.  And if it isn't "worth it" to them, fair enough.. no harm done.

But I do think it's a matter of professionalism.  How many times do you go back to a guy who never has the mold he needs?  

I wouldn't trust my vehicle to someone who needs to use money to buy a wrench.  I wouldn't have work done on houses by people who have to go buy hammers and compressors first.  

I almost assume that someone who 'saves' the cost of a mold gun has also 'saved' the cost of liability insurance, legal structure, or tax professionals.  For the guy selling a holster or two outta the garage, maybe fine -- but not the path for the serious professional.

[HBAR]

I have molds that have only been used once or maybe a few times. It happens.   If I dont have it, I just get ahold of my mold suppliers, see if the mold is available and then nail down how long it will take to get, THEN I quote the buyer my lead time.  In the long term you will probably make something else for that mold.

Like someone else mentioned go ahead and make a couple more holsters for that mold and list them for sale. Maybe someone else is looking for something oddball.

Sometimes I cant make a holster for someone. If I cant source a mold or the real gun. It sucks.  I have to explain that only the most popular guns get made into molds. 

I have had people offer to buy the mold for me, because  they knew that they had something out of the ordinary. I have always said no. This is part of our business.

Edited January 23, 2017 by HBAR

[CaptQuirk]

Thanks to all for your opinions. I haven't been out right charging anybody for the molds, but padded a little in for the shipping That is less than $10 usually, unless they want to speed things up. But, I was talking to someone a while back, and they had asked if I was charging the customers anything for the molds I had to order. They suggested that I should recoup at least part of the cost. So, I just thought I would see how the rest of the world is doing things.

[bikermutt07]

The tooling charge is a good way to look at it. A few dollars on each order for just that purpose (I see) is feasible. And think how many holsters you will sell, and the tooling fee isn't needed for a mold. Then you can apply it elsewhere in the shop. New splitter, sewing machine, whatever.

I won't ramble today.

[OLDNSLOW]

Another way of looking at is that the ROI on that tool, at the end of the year regardless of it being a money maker or just another low ROI on that one sale is the fact that the original purchase is tax deductible as a tool needed for the business.  and yes tools are deductible as they are an important factor in doing business.  so why should the client pay for it when you get to right it as the cost of doing business, just like using a portion of the house, garage, or what ever other space you use is deductible as it contributes to the P & L of the business.

[TrooperChuck]

When I first started my shop I had no mold guns, so I had to take in the customer's gun in order to make their custom holster.  But, I soon found out it is illegal to do that!

Unless you have a Federal Firearms License you can not legally take a gun from the customer to make their holster!  As ridiculous as is sounds, taking a customer's gun and then giving it back to them after you make the holster is considered a "transfer" and to legally transfer a gun nowadays you need an FFL.  Crazy!  I know.  But, it's the world we live in nowadays.

So, I ended up getting myself an FFL, but I am also now buying mold guns to add to my collection of tools.  So, I've had to add a couple dollars to the cost of my holsters to help offset the cost of the mold guns.  Some mold guns can be used for a variety of gun models.  For instance, if you buy one Colt single action revolver mold gun you can use that to make holsters for any of the Colt clones and Ruger Vaqueros.

 

[CaptQuirk]

@TrooperChuck- What can I say? I like being a rebellious outlaw. I also tore the tags off of my mattress, and there is nothing they can do to stop me!

[Dwight]

I generally rely on my own personal stock of guns, . . . some blue guns, . . . and some pine derby guns.

My pine derby guns are literally made of pine, . . . mostly southern yellow pine, . . . from a left over piece of 2 x 10 or 2 x 12 or some such.

They are dimensionally very close to the real thing, . . . and I have never had a problem so far with them.  

Part of that comes from the model making stuff I used to do, . . . and part comes from my carpentering skills and tools aquired over the years.

It works, . . . that is what counts.

May God bless,

Dwight

[CaptQuirk]

@Dwight- That is a pretty impressive skill.

[Bolt Vanderhuge]

3 hours ago, TrooperChuck said:

When I first started my shop I had no mold guns, so I had to take in the customer's gun in order to make their custom holster.  But, I soon found out it is illegal to do that!

Unless you have a Federal Firearms License you can not legally take a gun from the customer to make their holster!  As ridiculous as is sounds, taking a customer's gun and then giving it back to them after you make the holster is considered a "transfer" and to legally transfer a gun nowadays you need an FFL.  Crazy!  I know.  But, it's the world we live in nowadays.

So, I ended up getting myself an FFL, but I am also now buying mold guns to add to my collection of tools.  So, I've had to add a couple dollars to the cost of my holsters to help offset the cost of the mold guns.  Some mold guns can be used for a variety of gun models.  For instance, if you buy one Colt single action revolver mold gun you can use that to make holsters for any of the Colt clones and Ruger Vaqueros.

 

In Washington that is true but there are many states where it is not. Here in AZ we do NOT need an FFL to transfer a gun between private citizens.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Bolt Vanderhuge

[bikermutt07]

6 hours ago, Bolt Vanderhuge said:

In Washington that is true but there are many states where it is not. Here in AZ we do NOT need an FFL to transfer a gun between private citizens.

Can the same be said for a business? I think this is where the atf throws in the monkey wrench.

[TrooperChuck]

Unfortunately, I don't know what other states require.  I suspect Bikermutt is correct in that there may be different rules for private vs. business transfers.

CaptQuirk:  You rock!  I'm gonna go upstairs and tear the tag off my mattress right now!  Just to show how hip I am, I might even live stream my outlaw-ness on Facebook!

Dwight:  Carving some dummy guns out of wood sounds like a good idea!  thanks

[JLSleather]

People do NOT bring me firearms.  If you are approaching me with a weapon, I absolutely should KNOW you.

 

[LumpenDoodle2]

3D printer.

Solved the gun thing for me.

[JLSleather]

35 minutes ago, LumpenDoodle2 said:

3D printer.

Solved the gun thing for me.

Where did you get the dimensions for the printer?

 

[MADMAX22]

On 2/1/2017 at 6:14 PM, TrooperChuck said:

When I first started my shop I had no mold guns, so I had to take in the customer's gun in order to make their custom holster.  But, I soon found out it is illegal to do that!

Unless you have a Federal Firearms License you can not legally take a gun from the customer to make their holster!  As ridiculous as is sounds, taking a customer's gun and then giving it back to them after you make the holster is considered a "transfer" and to legally transfer a gun nowadays you need an FFL.  Crazy!  I know.  But, it's the world we live in nowadays.

So, I ended up getting myself an FFL, but I am also now buying mold guns to add to my collection of tools.  So, I've had to add a couple dollars to the cost of my holsters to help offset the cost of the mold guns.  Some mold guns can be used for a variety of gun models.  For instance, if you buy one Colt single action revolver mold gun you can use that to make holsters for any of the Colt clones and Ruger Vaqueros.

 

That "law" came into effect about a year ago (maybe two). Before that it was not an issue and not against the law. All the liberals out here have been trying to turn this place into california and are doing a pretty good job of it. 

When the law was first enacted you couldnt even take your wife or other family member shooting at a range and hand them your gun. They had to write in a change or whatever its called so that family members could use your gun and give it back basically. If I remember right you cant even let your buddy your shooting with at the range plink a few rounds with your gun not that anyone I know follows that crap. 

Kitsap county passed a bunch of other stuff with it, like not being able to discharge a firearm within 500yds of any "wetland", news flash this whole western half of the state is a wetland. Also made a bunch of other stuff in the fine print like you cant shoot rifles that use ammo considered pistol ammo at the range, no 45lc lever actions or the like for instance. Its cool to shoot a 308 but dont dare pick up the lever action 45LC . Basically they dont want anyone to shoot on there own land, and they wanted to push out as many gun ranges as they could. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by MADMAX22

[LumpenDoodle2]

On 02/02/2017 at 5:36 PM, JLSleather said:

Where did you get the dimensions for the printer?

 

I can't claim to have done the hard work.   Some very kind folk on thingiverse did the work on constructing the gcode files on a couple of prop guns, which I found I could make use of.

The parts are printed out, then you glue everything together.    I googled the proper dimensions, then scaled within the software.   

Not a perfect solution, and if an alternative exists, it's a lot easier to take it, but it allows me to have a 'blue gun' which is adequate for my very basic needs.