Diyer Report post Posted January 30, 2017 I am doing a little dance. Why? Well I found out today that my local saddle maker is selling a Durkopp Adler 205/370 or 374 that he has in his workshop, complete with an Efka Variostop motor/control system.The machine is likely to be well used,but not necessarily knackered. I get to find out the price on Thursday, when the owner will be "in".The previous one was around 1800 euros, sold last week.I suspect he is getting new machines, and the old ones will have long become "scrap price" from an accountancy point of view. I just have to make sure what I am buying is not real scrap, as Adler parts prices can be steeeeeeeeep! As it is a production machine, there is also air operated this and that.Not all of it works, but I will have to take those bits off (I really do not want to hear my compressor all the time), and replace them with original items. The motor may be 3 phase- it looked a lot bigger than any single phase one I have had- sort of bullet shaped.I suspect from pictures I have seen, the Efka is used with a clutch motor.. The manual states that the recommended Efka unit is either a type 9B 31, or an 8E 521. I found some details on the 8E 521. It has a pneumatic backtack console parked on top of the machine head. The Efka looks awful complicated- how useful/what can you do with it, assuming the system is quite old- no computer shaped boxes like the new ones. Underneath the machine table was a great jumble of boxes, air operation stuff, and wiring. Efka will be completely new to me. The 205 head is painted grey (any idea of year/s of manufacture?), and has a black end piece, with no cover for the arm that has thread going throughon its end. I noticed that the stitch length lever did not stay up when put in reverse, but I wondered if this had been disabled in some way for the air back tacking. Are there any particular checks pertaining to this specific model that I need to do? I have noticed comments on costing for a new bobbin case, plus checking for needle bar wobble and availability of the different needle size spacers pointed out in UWE's Youtube video. It is of course, already set up to sew a reasonably thick leather, so I can take some samples of what I use with me. I have the room and the time to play with this one, if the price is right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted January 30, 2017 You can always remove the motor (and all its associated paraphernalia) and replace it with a servo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diyer Report post Posted January 30, 2017 I have a Hohsing on my 105, so that could be used. Or I could possibly use my single phase clutch motor that WAS on the 105.Is there any value on the older Efka stuff? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted January 30, 2017 In my opinion you would have to be something of a masochist to want to put a clutch motor on a leather sewing machine! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoepatcher Report post Posted January 31, 2017 Diyer, Get us some pics of the machine and motor. That way, we can see what kind of shape it is in. I have (4) 205-370 Adlers here at our plant and they all are not set up with Efka computer motors. This gave us needle positioner, air foot lift, air back tack, speed control. After having these functions on a machine, I do NOT want to go back to manual one. If it is a 3 phase motor on the one you are looking at, that could be changed with a phase converter. Do you currently have air at your shop now? An Adler 205 can be converted back to a plane jane machine with a servo motor. Hirose makes a very good clone bobbin shuttle. I use them on our Adlers. To bad you are not in the states. Allen at Weaver Leather is about the best I know of at rebuilding Adler 205's simply because he works on them everyday and has so for over 20 years. They rebuilt 2 of my 4 Adler 205's. Pictures will tell us a lot. glenn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diyer Report post Posted January 31, 2017 Glenn, I do have a SMALL air compressor. Can you please tell me what the consumption for 1 machine might be? My workshop for sewing is in the house,and the room is a converted bedroom ,so there is not much room.I will be taking photos, as well as some sample leather to try out. The price needs to allow me to spend money on parts, hopefully not the bottomless pit variety. Presumably even though I am not in the USA, Allen is available at the other end of a phone? I also have a tame machinist that is pretty good if needed, but I will be looking on this machine as a project rather than something I need up and running asap.I know there was a bit of muttering about something on the air system that did not work. Fortunately, a Portuguese friend will be visiting, and she can help me with language translation. My Portuguese is ok, but sometimes one has to be really careful with negotiations, that I am being understood correctly, and vice versa. Regarding clutch motors on leather sewing machines- clutch motors were all my experience from the early 1970's to two years ago. I still have one on my flatbed Seiko.You kinda get used to slipping and feathering the clutch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted January 31, 2017 I guess I should have added the proviso "unless you are very experienced with clutch motors" (which most of us hobbyists are not), so feel free to ignore my comments . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoepatcher Report post Posted February 1, 2017 Diyer, We run our machines at about 60-75lbs of pressure. A small compressor may handle it . It just depends on how fast you run the machine, how often you reverse stitch and lift the foot since these are the functions that use air. Allen is available between 8:ooam and 4:oopm EST at 1800-Weaver1. If you use a clutch motor, you will also want to get a speed reducer especially on this large machine. glenn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diyer Report post Posted February 2, 2017 As I may set the machine up in its original form, I can try out my compressor and see how it goes. The motor is a 3 phase, so that will need altering, as I only use single phase. The price is a steal, even if I have to buy some expensive spares- 1,000 euros- less than I thought. There was a very small amount of play that I could feel on the needle shaft, and the same for the inner and outer foot shafts. He said there were the curved spacers for different sized needles. I suspect the shuttle and race are worn, but it appeared to sew ok-albeit on thin leather, which is what it has been used for. He does not want me to spend time taking it to pieces- he said that two strong guys managed to move the other one he sold- has any one got any opinions as to the number of people needed to move it out and onto a low trailer with a ramp? I do not own a pallet truck. The man was rather puzzled as to why I wanted such a BIG machine!!! He he. The control box has 6F62A and some other letters obscured by something on the photo. Here are some photos I took today. I see the system only allows the one photo. How do I upload more please? Do I have to put them on a photobucket file with a link, or is there some other way? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted February 2, 2017 We have a fliesize limit of 1.46 mb per file. Just upload another photo as a follow-up. Or, reduce the file sizes by lowering the resolution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diyer Report post Posted February 2, 2017 oK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diyer Report post Posted February 2, 2017 Ho hum ho hum. More photos. Nope, system will not allow it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted February 3, 2017 Two strong guys? Very strong, I'd say. It's not just the weight, they can be an awkward thing to move. If you can remove that great lump of a motor it would certainly make it easier to move. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoepatcher Report post Posted February 3, 2017 On this set up which is a lot like other Adlers we have at our plants, removing the motor is not a quick or easy job. Not like a clutch motor or newer servo. These Efka motors weigh in excess of 70 lbs. Plus, they have a bunch of hook ups you have to undo. I would try to rent a dolly cart that the whole machine and table can fit on. DO NOT unhook the motor if you do not have to. If you have a small dolly cart like they move furniture on, it will be a lot easier to move with 2 strong guys. See what you can rent in your area. The head and table cleaned up will look great! glenn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Docado Report post Posted February 3, 2017 You can move alot of heavy items by placing them on a pallet / plywood (securly) and using 3 or 4 pieces pipe (pvc works well ) under pallet to roll on a flat surface. Nice Find. Good Luck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diyer Report post Posted February 3, 2017 I was thinking of making up two sets of heavy duty castor wheels on a plywood base, and using my trolley jack to lift the machine to get underneath to fit them. I agree about the comment on the wiring and motor- it is all interlinked. I would use my trolley jack to lift the relevant parts so the castors can be put underneath. The workshop is so crowded, it is near impossibe to get a fork lift truck in there. Once outside, I then need to get the machine up my ramp, and onto the trailer base. I am going to see if there are any businesses local to the saddler that have a fork lift truck, for putting the machine on my trailer. The whole lot measures 1.5m long, and my trailer is 8' x 4'.Getting it off when I am home is another matter, but at least I would have the time to take things off if I wanted to- plus I have a mini hand forklift that will take an 80kg maximum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted February 4, 2017 I guess for a business, removing and refitting a motor/controller, with lots of connections, would be making unnecessary work. Me, I wouldn't hesitate, anything to make my life easier (and removing excess weight from a sewing machine definitely rates as easier). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MADMAX22 Report post Posted February 7, 2017 If you have a ramp then a come-a-long works great, one person to steady the machine on your dollys and the other to crank it up the ramp. You can get a 2 ton one for $20-30 usually. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diyer Report post Posted February 8, 2017 The three guys that came to help disconnected the trailer, tipped it up, got the machine on, tipped the trailer back down, and reconnected it to my pickup.Great stuff. My new toy is now in my living room, and I have started taking parts off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoepatcher Report post Posted February 9, 2017 Diyer, Great. Let us know who we can help. They are great machines. Keep us up to date on your progress. glenn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diyer Report post Posted February 9, 2017 Glenn, thanks for that. The stand is now at the machinist for strengthening and alteration. After that it will be sent to the epoxy coaters for painting in any other colour than grey. The head is sitting on my living room floor(not carpeted!)- it is not only very oily, but inside the cylinder arm I see lots of cack to clean out. The oiling system has lots of little "feeder wicks" going all over the place. Any comments on how good or irritating they are? I will keep hold of all the air stuff, just in case I change my mind on using it or not. The shuttle looks like it needs replacing- needle marks on the bobbin case, and a blunt point. I will get a Hirose. How do I tell if the race iteself needs replacing?? I reckon there is around 2mm of up and down movement- certainly more than on my 105/64. The bottom shaft that the shuttle and raceway fit onto seems to have only a small amount of side play. Needle bar, and both bars the feet are on appear tight with little play. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted February 9, 2017 You did well with the moving - nothing like a bit of brute strength! (Sadly lacking in my department). I looked at the first photo again, and while having all those settings to play with would appeal to my technical side, I've realised that for what I'm doing (leatherwork) having a simpler, basic machine is preferable - there's enough to go wrong without added complications. A bit like my motorbikes, having computer-controlled fuel injection was great as it allowed me to hook up a computer and fiddle with the tuning (which I did a lot, and it was fun) but the bike I'm keeping has carby's and no computer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diyer Report post Posted February 9, 2017 My motorbike, a Honda Bros (US model is the Hawk) has become more complicated due to fitting a full fairing, which necessitated all sorts of other changes- but yes, essentially simple (until I have a wiring fault............) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted February 9, 2017 A bike, sewing machines and shooting - life's pretty good at the moment (beats the heck out of working ). I reckon that new machine will be a bit of fun to get sorted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diyer Report post Posted February 9, 2017 Well at least I saw it doing some sewing................ "Working".Hmmm. I do more of that now than when I was "employed". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
