Odd Neeple Tips & KOOLTORR Needles - WFT

[Constabulary]

Does someone know what the purpose of KOOLTORR needles is? They are dull black "coated". Never seen this before.

I also have some 134 (R) Schmetz needles with very odd needle tips that look like a small blade - will post pictures tomorrow...

[CowboyBob]

They are for High-Speed sewing esp in denser material that heat the needle.

[Constabulary]

Thanks Bob  - and that black coating really helps? I mean the surface is not as smooth as a chromium finish. I know Torrington METWAR now belongs to GB. Do they still make them? Don´t think so or...

Answered the other question my self - RTFM (Schmetz Needle tip PDF from their website)

Tip is LBR but seems this is a "regular stock" tip at SCHMETZ needles. I just have not seen this before... Anyway - some pictures

Edited March 1, 2017 by Constabulary

[trash treasure]

Those are really interesting needle points - Shaped like tiny axe heads - To chop their way into the leather ?

[gottaknow]

I still have a ton of KoolTorr needles, mainly from the 80's. We used them to reduce needle heat mainly on high speed overlock machines. I found over many years of using them that they made little difference. They fell out of popularity simply because guys like me quit spending the extra money on them when air coolers and silicone thread dip worked way better. The other issue with them is that the texture of the needle interfered with the thread flow through the needle eye. This affected the loop formation. On needle rise, the coated needles would make the loop too big. In order to make the loop smaller, you had to tighten the tension, actually making thread breakage worse. The advent of the titanium needles (which actually do reduce needle heat), makes the coated needles useless. Schmetz made a teflon coated needle that was green in color. I still have some of those. They were a little better than the KoolTorr, but not much. I get to deal with needle heat every day, using several methods to control it. Needle heat will separate the cheap thread from more expensive thread as well.

Regards, Eric

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

2 hours ago, gottaknow said:

I still have a ton of KoolTorr needles, mainly from the 80's. We used them to reduce needle heat mainly on high speed overlock machines. I found over many years of using them that they made little difference. They fell out of popularity simply because guys like me quit spending the extra money on them when air coolers and silicone thread dip worked way better. The other issue with them is that the texture of the needle interfered with the thread flow through the needle eye. This affected the loop formation. On needle rise, the coated needles would make the loop too big. In order to make the loop smaller, you had to tighten the tension, actually making thread breakage worse. The advent of the titanium needles (which actually do reduce needle heat), makes the coated needles useless. Schmetz made a teflon coated needle that was green in color. I still have some of those. They were a little better than the KoolTorr, but not much. I get to deal with needle heat every day, using several methods to control it. Needle heat will separate the cheap thread from more expensive thread as well.

Regards, Eric

Nice info., never  knew that or anything about that for that matter.  

[gottaknow]

6 hours ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

Nice info., never  knew that or anything about that for that matter.  

I seem to recall that Groz Beckert took over the production and marketing for Torrington in the early 80's. I'm not sure how long they kept the brand name alive, but I don't think it took them long to figure out the black coating was a waste of time. At that time, I was head mechanic with 350 operators. Stocking duplicate needles was a huge expense, so I just found the best way to keep needles cooler without them, which to this day is needle coolers with Silicone thread dip. The air is the most effective. Needles get hot at high speed and the heat increases with each piece sewn. Especially long seams with little lag time between pieces. If an operator is overlocking an underarm and sideseam on a jacket and stops to line up the underarm seam, the hot needles are sitting against the thread for a time and when sewing starts, the thread snaps. Silicone won't stop this, or coated needles. Air will keep the needles cool while they're just sitting there. Keep in mind, textile thread sizes rarely exceed T70.

I've seen upholstery machines damage T135 without breaking it, but cause a small melted area. For those that sew faster, you may not know you're damaging your bonded threads unless you test sew as fast and as long as you would normally. Sew for a bit, feel your needle for heat. If it's too hot to touch, you're likely damaging your thread. You can see or feel a melted little blob with your fingers. For those that can count your stitches as you sew....never mind.

Regards, Eric

[Wizcrafts]

I only use titanium coated needles on my Singer 139 walking foot machine. Sometimes I sew long projects at full speed on my servo motor (about 20 stitches per second). So far the thread hasn't melted of snapped. But, I only sew like that once in a while, not all day. The rest of the time I sew a few stitches per second.

[gottaknow]

11 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

I only use titanium coated needles on my Singer 139 walking foot machine. Sometimes I sew long projects at full speed on my servo motor (about 20 stitches per second). So far the thread hasn't melted of snapped. But, I only sew like that once in a while, not all day. The rest of the time I sew a few stitches per second.

The titanium needles are great. I use them on all my bartacks, memory stitchers, button hole and button tackers, as well as my heavy chainstitch felling machines. Best advance in needle technology since I've been working on machines. I've never checked Wiz, but are they widely available in the common leather points?

Regards, Eric

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, gottaknow said:

The titanium needles are great. I use them on all my bartacks, memory stitchers, button hole and button tackers, as well as my heavy chainstitch felling machines. Best advance in needle technology since I've been working on machines. I've never checked Wiz, but are they widely available in the common leather points?

Regards, Eric

Yes, in System 135x16 diamond/triangle point, either made or repackaged by Organ. So far I've only found then in sizes 18 through 24. I'm starting to look for them in System DBx1 for my Singer 31-15.

Besides running cooler, the titanium needles don't get plugged up by leather tape between layers, which I use extensively. This is a real benefit if you sew on a patcher, whose cleft foot tends to let taped leather lift with the needle.