Feeddog issue (?) 111w103 singer

[CSM68]

Can you help? Chicago member here and NEW on this machine, which I inherited from my mom. I'm a lifetime seamstress (about 38 years, I guess). Machine was not used for about 35 years so I oiled it up, all seemed fine, I knocked out a quilt, but then it seems to be sewing BACKWARDS. Feed dog issue? HELP!  I've only used regular machines all my life so go easy on me, assume I'm a total beginner on this machine because I AM! Please help, I'm tearing my hair out. 

[Yetibelle]

Well since that machine does not have reverse, I'm not sure how you got it to go backwards?  I have seen them sew "in-place"  standing still but not backwards.  When you start your first few stiches - make sure you hold the needle thread and bobbin thread tight in one hand, other wise they might not grab and then it wont sew.  How did you thread the machine?  That also may be the issue.

 

[CowboyBob]

Some old motors will start backwards,just spin it counterclockwise when you start it to get it spinning the right way.

[CSM68]

Thank you for the advice!! I'll try your suggestions tomorrow. If you think of anything else please let me know. 

[dikman]

Good point, Bob. Someone on here some time ago had a similar problem, turned out to be a dried out capacitor in the start cct. (not uncommon in old motors).

[CSM68]

@dikman please elaborate if you can. Thank you

[Uwe]

Some electric motors actually have a hard time to start spinning from a standstill. They need movement to work properly. Once the motor spins, everything is okay, but starting the motor is often a problem. Without getting too technical, these hard-to-start electric motors usually have some means of momentarily "faking" movement to trick them into spinning. These motors also happily spin in either direction. The startup helper device also helps the motor spin in the right direction (most of the time). 

Ancient clutch motors can be trouble and some are downright dangerous electrical or fire hazards. I've picked up old machines where the clutch motors had frayed wiring, or dried, brittle rubber coating and all manner of potential electrical hazards and problems.

Unless you're super attached to that particular motor for sentimental reasons, it may be wise to replace it with a new clutch motor, or with a modern servo motor (the cost is about the same). If you've spent a lifetime working on domestic machines, it's unlikely that you will love the clutch motor experience, even if the motor spins in the right direction.

 Even a cheap servo motor ($135) will give you modern electrical safety and "domestic" speed control so you can safely enjoy your heirloom sewing machine.

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Uwe

[dikman]

Hi CSM, as Uwe said an AC (Alternating Current which is what normal mains power is) electric motor can be difficult to start spinning without help (and can start in either direction). The usual way to do this is with a separate start winding or a capacitor (electrical component) which assists it to start (and in the right direction). My old Singer motor, which is at least as old as yours, has a large switch box with a capacitor inside, and while it still works I won't use it. Modern motors often have the capacitor mounted in the base or in a housing attached to the motor. I recently had a problem with a belt grinder, it was slow starting and I needed to spin it by hand to help it get up to speed. I replaced the capacitor and all was well.

In your case, however, I agree with Uwe in that I wouldn't mess around with a motor that old (unless you know exactly what you're doing). Replace it with a servo, it will make sewing so much easier.

I recently bought an old Singer that had an equally old original Singer motor. I took one look at it and junked it, I didn't even try it to see if it would work! It's one thing to restore an old sewing machine, it's another to mess around with old, and potentially lethal, motors.

I hope this helps you? (I do have a tendency to waffle a bit).

[CSM68]

Thank you Dikman and Uwe! Is it at all possible that it is simply a walking foot problem? or do you feel strongly that it's the motor?

[brmax]

Is the top of the pulley turning, coming towards the operator when started.

Also what is the stitch length and setting if i can ask. 

Have a good day

Floyd

[Uwe]

The motor spinning the wrong way is the more likely cause of the reverse feeding problem. There's no point in investigating potential other issues unless we are certain the machine's mechanism is rotating in the correct direction.  

I'd recommend taking the drive belt off the hand wheel until you hand turn perfect stitches on the machines. It's no use running the machine under power if something is wrong. Tilt the machine head back a few inches to slacken the drive belt and take the belt off the hand wheel. Don't put the belt back on until you can hand-turn perfect stitches.

Move the top of handwheel towards you - the hand wheel needs to spin counter-clockwise when you look at it from the right side (that's the only way that machine will ever make a stitch.)

Try that and report back.

[dikman]

Good point in removing the belt. Then start/stop the motor a few times and see which way it turns - always the same way or is it inconsistent?

[CSM68]

I appreciate all the commentary here.. just so you know I called in a sewing repairman and he can't figure it out but had never worked with a running foot before, just home models. The machine is now oiled and cleaned to the hilt. So now I'm really depressed..

Uwe---I removed the belt, the engine OFF, and moved the wheel counter clockwise as you suggest but the machine is still sewing in place/backwards. I guess when I move the wheel manually it's more of an 'in place' stitch. 

There is what appears to be a stitch length knob on the side of the wheel but seems to have no affect no matter how it is moved. Is it possible the walking foot is not working properly? This is odd because the only thing I sewed on it was a quilt! No heavy leathers at all, but is it somehow misaligned?

 

 

[Wizcrafts]

11 minutes ago, CSM68 said:

There is what appears to be a stitch length knob on the side of the wheel but seems to have no affect no matter how it is moved.

That knob on the end of the flywheel is the stitch length adjuster. It consists of the know attached to a long steel shaft that has a long tapered cone on the other end. If the threads are not worn off the device, screwing in inward (CW) should lengthen the stitches and vice-versa. If turning the know CW has no effect, the threads may be gone. If that's the case, the stitch length can be adjusted internally via a pair of set screws in one side of a movable block that controls the needle and feed dog motion.

The control block I mentioned has a cap screw on one end that holds a very heavy spring in place and it should not be removed. The other end has two set screws, with the top one just being a stopper for the bottom screw, which sets the stitch length against the tapered cone on the left end of that long shaft. The bottom screw usually has a rounded end to push smoothly against the tapered cone.

The stitch length shaft can be removed to clean up any gouges, polished and replaced.

If I get time I will try to find a parts page showing these ancient mechanisms in an exploded view. Or, maybe someone else will have it handy and post that page.

[Uwe]

Screw that stitch length adjustment knob in the center of the hand wheel in as far as it will go and see if it produces a noticeable feed dog movement. If not, you may be missing some parts. I just got done fixing the same stitch length mechanism on a different machine where a few parts were missing on the excenter disk. Let's hope your stitch length mechanism is complete because fixing mine was a real pain.

[CSM68]

I have GREATLY APPRECIATED everyone's commentary!! Give me a day to try out your ideas and I'll report back. XO

[CSM68]

Wizcrafts, Uwe, and others--- ok so I pulled out that gauge and yes before I did that i moved it around and tried again to sew with no effect whatsoever.. I'm starting to suspect that that button is the issue? Do you agree? Ok so what should I do next?

[Uwe]

We'll have to be a bit more precise with wording to make progress. It's not totally clear to me which exact parts you are referring to when you say "that gauge" and "that button". It's obvious to you because you're looking at the parts, but we have to interpret the words and try figure out the details. Pictures with a little arrow always help. Most smart phones allow to to annotate pictures with arrows and words that you can then upload here. 

I made a video describing the feed adjustment mechanism on my Singer 153W102, which should be identical to what you have on your Singer 111W103. Hopefully the video will help you understand how the feed (stitch length)  adjustment functions and perhaps identify why yours does not work right.

 

[CSM68]

Uwe-----This is fantastic, and I don't know how to tell you how much I appreciate your video. NOW---Because of your education I have been able to pinpoint the issue and I have FINALLY found a repair guy in Chicago that understands the problem and can address it. My biggest problem before was that 
I didn't know what the problem was and so making certain I had the right repair person was problematic. I'm expecting a happy ending here; I want to thank EVERYONE here for their input.