aging leather for reenactor

[shug]

hi,a reenactor friend has asked me to age an m1916 holster to a ww2 finish.would neetsfoot oil have been used on originals and were they polished at all?any ideas would be appreciated.

[Boriqua]

I will be following this intently! You didn't say if your friend was looking for it to look used and abraded or new. I have repaired a few WWII era holsters and gear for some folks around here that were in fine shape but the thread rotted and the finish seemed to be sprayed on. I dont know how to explain it but the color while very very black was to even looking to be a dye job or they dyed it in a way that is unknown to me. In addition I think?? it was treated with lacquer. because it had a fairly think clear coat and were pretty shinny.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Boriqua

[dirkba]

Hi,

I am no expert, but having read a few articles on this topic for a 1907 bayonet scabbard I want to make, the common technique used seems to be by using fine sandpaper on the leather.

Applying rubbing alcohol, with a spray bottle, on damp leather will dry the leather out and give it a faded look.

A wire brush will also help to distress the leather before you start applying any oil.

I would apply the above to the leather before I START THE PROJECT AND ONCE THE PROJECT IS DONE you can focus on the areas that would normally take the most wear and tear.

Good luck with the project

 

 

[Stetson912]

13 hours ago, Boriqua said:

I will be following this intently! You didn't say if your friend was looking for it to look used and abraded or new. I have repaired a few WWII era holsters and gear for some folks around here that were in fine shape but the thread rotted and the finish seemed to be sprayed on. I dont know how to explain it but the color while very very black was to even looking to be a dye job or they dyed it in a way that is unknown to me. In addition I think?? it was treated with lacquer. because it had a fairly think clear coat and were pretty shinny.

That's interesting. I would think that at the time of production they were pretty large scale. I'm no history buff so this is just speculation. The lacquer finish would make sense because it could be easily and quickly applied. Do you think the dye would be vinegroon or possibly dip dyed? 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Stetson912
Misspelling

[Boriqua]

So I was so interested in this I did some follow up which may or may not be helpful. Turns out that handgun holsters werent dyed black in the US until the 50's. They were actually drum dyed in a dark russet. When they appear black in any color photos it is said to be because of years of applying neatsfoot oil. Obviously in Black and white photos the dark russet will appear black. I found a pic of a great example of weathered here

http://www.ima-usa.com/original-u-s-wwii-m1916-45-colt-1911-leather-holster-by-sears-7454.html

If that is what you are looking for then Dirkba hit the nail on the head and I would second sandpaper and alcohol. To get the color right were I going to use neatsfoot I would do it after the roughing up. Having said that .. it depends on what stage of aging you are looking for. The abraded cracked holster I show at the link is the result of 100 years of age and neglect. No troop would have worn anything like that at the time. It would have been darkened with oil and rubbing and there might certainly be scratches and wrinkles but not to the extent of the holster in the link.

I spent a good deal of time making props and running a crew who made props but for camera so it didnt have to stand up to to close a scrutiny and I would probably cheat some. I think you are on the right track with your oil idea but I would probably hasten the aging by looking at a ton of photos and then taking out my airbrush and doing some selective aging. Then I might put a generous helping of oil. Remember that while you can replicate the oil you cant replicate a guy having his holster rub on equipment while marching or the dark spot from where he might rest his hand out of habit. That is just use and hours of it. But with a handy dandy airbrush you can recreate the darkened areas pretty convincingly and the oil should make it seamless.

Check out the site for more reference. Still working on what the top coat might have been

http://www.ima-usa.com/nation/u-s-militaria/u-s-holsters.html

Be sure to post before and after shots!!

Edited April 8, 2017 by Boriqua

[shug]

thanks all for some interesting info.my friend is part of a group planning to recreate us troops present at the normandy landings and wants a holster that would look used and probably seen combat.i am also giving a brace of m3 tanker holsters the same treatment .i will try to post some photos as i go and would like your comments.thanks again

 

[Thornton]

1 hour ago, shug said:

thanks all for some interesting info.my friend is part of a group planning to recreate us troops present at the normandy landings and wants a holster that would look used and probably seen combat.i am also giving a brace of m3 tanker holsters the same treatment .i will try to post some photos as i go and would like your comments.thanks again

 

Most of the troops landing on Normandy beach would have been seeing combat for the first time, so in my opinion, no need to age the holster.

[fredk]

I find that most re-enactors are obsessed with the idea that leather items from past eras were badly made and roughly finished.

In the case of the holster here; it would have been part of the soldiers equipment which needed daily polishing and buffing up to pass morning inspection. Signs of wear would minimal. If the re-enator is depicting a WW2 soldier with a WW2 holster then that holster will look very new. Even today, 70 odd years on, a WW2 holster still looks very good - only ones neglected will have a worn look.

[shug]

good point,maybe minimal wear would be more accurate.perhaps i will restrict the ageing techniques to western style holsters that would have seen more use.thanks for your opinions.

 

 

[Boriqua]

On 4/9/2017 at 8:51 PM, fredk said:

I find that most re-enactors are obsessed with the idea that leather items from past eras were badly made and roughly finished.

In the case of the holster here; it would have been part of the soldiers equipment which needed daily polishing and buffing up to pass morning inspection. Signs of wear would minimal. If the re-enator is depicting a WW2 soldier with a WW2 holster then that holster will look very new. Even today, 70 odd years on, a WW2 holster still looks very good - only ones neglected will have a worn look.

Agreed! That is where I was going with

" No troop would have worn anything like that at the time. It would have been darkened with oil and rubbing "

I Served in the US Army for a time .. No way I would have had anything abraded and cracked on. But with use and FREQUENT polishing and cleaning you will get darker spots where things rub. Still you would need to be squared away and cracked wouldn't have passed. I was issued 2 pair of boots to kick of basic training .. at the end of 9 weeks one pair gave up the ghost and couldn't be polished anymore since the toe areas had basically become worn to suede from crawling around in the Missouri gravel and mud. They had to be tossed.

Like I said .. look at old gear and see where it would have lightened or darkened under normal use and see if you can fake it. I do it all the time with western style saddlebags. Where it rubs on the horse, where you will handle the flap .. all those will darken.

Cant wait to see what you come up with.

Alex

[kiwican]

That's some good info right there! I'm always on the look out for old leather stuff, it would not have occurred to me to look for the darker spots for rubbing or handling to show some age. I also buy antique knives. Had a guy a few years back try to sell me a genuine ww2 Japanese commando dagger for only two hundred dollars! I told him that I didn't think the word Japan would have been stamped on the blade in English. This guy was good tho, told me the used combat dagger from ww2 was made for the export business. I told I was pretty sure that during ww2 we weren't buying anything from Emperor Hirohito during that time. He did not get my money.

[shug]

i would like to go with the idea of oiling and representing darkened rubbed areas but do not own an airbrush,any ideas to create a similar effect?what about dye applied sparingly with a cloth?

 

[shug]

1 hour ago, shug said:

i would like to go with the idea of oiling and representing darkened rubbed areas but do not own an airbrush,any ideas to create a similar effect?what about dye applied sparingly with a cloth?

 

can you overdo the neetsfoot oil and clog up the leather or should i use progressive light coats of oil?

 

[kiwican]

The neatsfoot will work, I've achieved those spots by accident from doing that!

[shug]

thanks for replies,would brown dye then tan polish and a light scuffing be reasonably accurate for a ww2 holster?

 

[Boriqua]

On 4/15/2017 at 1:09 PM, shug said:

i would like to go with the idea of oiling and representing darkened rubbed areas but do not own an airbrush,any ideas to create a similar effect?what about dye applied sparingly with a cloth?

 

You can certainly add "rub marks" with a rag or a shaving brush. Just make sure that it is not "wet" so you can bring up the color and feather it at the edges. This pic is not great and doesnt show the contrast as well as it looked in real life .. and its only an "ok" piece but it will give you the idea. I started from scratch with Cherry then dialed in some mahogany and then just misted some areas that I thought might be handled in real life with some brown. It was light passes but on the yoke where it might be carried or rub on the saddle, at the corners of the flaps where someone would naturally open and close it and even on the strap ends. I then used neatsfoot oil which brought all the colors together and then applied paste wax to the whole thing since I knew it would be used hard outdoors.

Now I knew the client to some degree so I knew he wouldnt go for "beat up" aged but wanted a little push on character marks that will naturally develop over time but I helped to get him started.

Kiwi is right in that you can pull it off with just oil applied to certain areas but I never saw a piece years later to know if the selective aging effect stayed.

With all of my suggestions I propose building up. You can never take out oil or dye effectively so it best to add both of them sparingly and then continue to add. I usually apply my neatsfoot with a tee shirt rag since it wont hold big heaping helpings of oil like a piece of towel might and then just keep reapplying until I am happy with the result.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Boriqua

[shug]

thanks,will give it a go.looks good,like the colour

[shug]

Thanks for the help and advice, I decided on a minimal approach and have settled on using a water based dye and wax Polish and bit of wire wool to ding them up a bit. Have got some before and after pics. Thanks again. 

[fredk]

I think they look just spot-on!

[shug]

thanks,it was scary messing with someone elses stuff so tried to keep it low key,was terrified i would destroy them!

[Boriqua]

They came out great! Congratulations!

[Stetson912]

Awesome!

[shug]

5 hours ago, Boriqua said:

They came out great! Congratulations!

thanks,appreciate all your help

4 hours ago, Stetson912 said:

Awesome!

 

4 hours ago, Stetson912 said:

Awesome!

thanks for your kind words.