Advice

[Grumpymann]

I have a customer that wants me to replace the decorative stitching on a bag. Now how much should I charge.  At the present time I'm just charging for materials and a few bucks for maybe 10 t0 50 dollars depending. (Not being as good as some here I can't in good conscience charge per hour. And I'm still getting off the ground.) at most 5 dollars in thread, maybe a needle or 2, 2 hours in removing stitches and 4 to 6 in replacing them. HELP!

[BOB BRENNER]

An hourly labor rate based on the national median household income is $50.00 (rounded up) and the household poverty hourly labor rate is $17.00 (rounded up).  So with 2 hours removing the stitches and 5 hours replacing them (7 hours of labor) - between $119.00 and $350.00 for labor.  If one adds in overhead expense then $207.00 to $438.00.  At minimum wage it would be $ 77.00 plus $88.00 for overhead or $165.00.   

[TonyRV2]

Bob, I must respectfully disagree with your numbers.  Median household income in the United States as of 2015 was just shy of $56.5K according to the U.S. census bureau.  Based upon a 2080 hour work year (40 hours per week), that would be closer to $27/hour.   Also as of 2015, a family of four is considered to be living on poverty if the household income is less than about 24k per year.  This translates to about 11.50/hr.  I'm not sure that the whole job would take 7 hours of time, but base on that number we're between $80 and $190.  

All in all, this is an interesting way to figure out what ones time might be worth, on average, but may not be totally relevant to the task at hand.  For instance, what's the replacement cost of the bag?  No ones going to pay $150 to repair a $100 dollar bag for instance.  Are we hand stitching or machine stitching.  If the repair can be done on a machine, it can be done quicker and I might be willing to except less, etc.,etc.  I guess it all boils down to what the craftsman is willing to accept based upon ability, experience and expectation.

 

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2016/demo/p60-256.html

[Sonydaze]

If you are viewing what you do as a business, you need to get a realistic return.

Materials, consumables and cost of space to work should be included at a profit in what you charge.  Your time also needs to be profitable.

In my opinion, starting out undercharging your clients, ends up with a client base that expects you to supply them at a loss.

 

[SolarLeatherMachines]

34 minutes ago, TonyRV2 said:

Bob, I must respectfully disagree with your numbers.  Median household income in the United States as of 2015 was just shy of $56.5K according to the U.S. census bureau.  Based upon a 2080 hour work year (40 hours per week), that would be closer to $27/hour.   Also as of 2015, a family of four is considered to be living on poverty if the household income is less than about 24k per year.  This translates to about 11.50/hr.  I'm not sure that the whole job would take 7 hours of time, but base on that number we're between $80 and $190.  

All in all, this is an interesting way to figure out what ones time might be worth, on average, but may not be totally relevant to the task at hand.  For instance, what's the replacement cost of the bag?  No ones going to pay $150 to repair a $100 dollar bag for instance.  Are we hand stitching or machine stitching.  If the repair can be done on a machine, it can be done quicker and I might be willing to except less, etc.,etc.  I guess it all boils down to what the craftsman is willing to accept based upon ability, experience and expectation.

 

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2016/demo/p60-256.html

I've been a keen follower of economics for years, and to my understanding, these numbers are closer to the true hourly wage.  

 

3 minutes ago, Sonydaze said:

If you are viewing what you do as a business, you need to get a realistic return.

Materials, consumables and cost of space to work should be included at a profit in what you charge.  Your time also needs to be profitable.

In my opinion, starting out undercharging your clients, ends up with a client base that expects you to supply them at a loss.

 

Exactly.  There are simply some jobs that you don't accept.  I stopped repairing purses years ago because ladies would balk at paying $40 to repair a $500 purse.  Not only that, but they will expect a purse that looks brand new when it's done, a complain loudly when it's not.   That's why there are very few places anymore that repair purses.  

[Sonydaze]

28 minutes ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

I've been a keen follower of economics for years, and to my understanding, these numbers are closer to the true hourly wage.  

 

Exactly.  There are simply some jobs that you don't accept.  I stopped repairing purses years ago because ladies would balk at paying $40 to repair a $500 purse.  Not only that, but they will expect a purse that looks brand new when it's done, a complain loudly when it's not.   That's why there are very few places anymore that repair purses.  

Saying no to some jobs is profitable... now you can use that time to make some money. 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I think the hourly labor rate of $50 that Bob was referring to is a wage PLUS overhead expense of the shop.  A full time, professional leather shop charging $50/hour is NOT going to be rolling in money, and I guarantee if the same shop is only charging $27/hour for labor, they are not going to be in business for long, or will have no opportunity to grow or expand the business.  A guy doing this as a hobby with a few tools, doing most of the work by hand, and no desire to build a business or do this for a living, will make a little extra spending money at $27 an hour, if he's lucky. 

[Grumpymann]

Thanks for the grist for the mill and time you all put into thinking and answering. To me my time is free cuz I'm still learning and practicing. Exploring and refining my style. Heck so far my time is mostly spent on simple stock, mystery bracelets, key loops, and the occasional dog collar. When I sell enough that I can pay the rent and buy a cheep double shoulder or half a hide Then I make a bag. Right now I'm trying not to loose money and keep the wife from screaming about the time I spend staring @ the walls and not the TV with her. So getting a few bucks for playing is pretty goon right now. I want to be where your ideas lead me but I have years, dues, blood and sweat to pay first as I see it. I need to get to where I'm paid for my skill and knowledge and NOT my time. I'm in this for the long haul. I'll have a conversation with the costumer and ask if the piece is worth me doing it. And maybe do it for 40 or 50 bucks just for the experience.

 

THANK YOU ALL for your help.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

You have a good attitude and seem willing to put in the hard work and pay your dues to get to where you want to be. I wish you the best of luck on your journey. Folks like you make it worth our time to teach what we know!

[Grumpymann]

Thanks Big Sioux for not giving me hell for listening close, taking it all in and going my own way. The mark of a good teacher is letting a student screw up, taking pride and trusting your teaching.

Sonydaze, Solarm that is something I have to pay attention to, Not chasing a nickel with a dollar. Your right somethings aren't worth my time nor the aggravation to the customer. Thanks for pointing that out. I never thought of it like that.

To Tony and Bob, when I get with in a few years of where I need to pull out a calculator to let me know I how I'm doing I'll remember your tutelage.

 

Thank you all!

[bikermutt07]

One more thing, if you plan on making a go at business. Spend 10 bucks on a book called the E² Revisited. This is a great look at what you are really in for in terms of running a business.

Good luck.

[Grumpymann]

Looks like all signs point to me needing that book. Thanks Bikermutt. "The E myth Revisited" on it