Singer 111w155 with Quick Rotan?

[kiddcaprix]

Hello all, just wanted to say hello and see what suggestions people have on some thoughts of mine. 

I just got into sewing and purchased a 111w155 in good shape for $250. Has a good clutch motor on it. I will be using this machine for knife sheaths and some upholstery work. However, I got lucky at an auction and got an Imperial zigzag (not much info online but its identical to the singer 143 models) with a Quick Rotan setup for $70. Also got a Brother MA4-V61-98-5 serger for $25. I think I got a pretty good deal. Anyway, im thinking of switching the quick rotan setup to the singer 111w. Primarily for slower control and the needle up and down options that the rotan controls offer. Do you guys think this will do well on the 111w? It took me 3 days of scouring the web but managed to find pdf manuals for the quick rotan setup. Not sure what the pulley ratio would be but I can machine a correct pulley if needed. Appreciate any thoughts. Didn't find any topics with anyone doing this on an old singer 111w. 

Thanks,

Adam

[Uwe]

You got some good deals there!

My recommendation would be to leave the Quick Rotan on the Imperial Zig-zag and use that setup as it is. It's not really worth the time and aggravation moving that Quick-Rotan setup and it'll just never be the same again once you rip it apart.

On the Singer 111, a simple, worthwhile upgrade is to swap the clutch motor for a simple servo motor with a small 50mm pulley.

You'll have two very capable machines that will actually sew. Use them for a few month and then decide if you still want to swap motors or make other upgrades.

 

 

 

 

[kiddcaprix]

Thanks Uwe for the reply. The Imperial is incomplete (no bobbin or carrier) and the serger didnt come with a motor that  was the primary reason for the motor swaps. Forgot to mention all that first. I was going to put the Rotan on the singer 111w and then put the clutch motor that came off of that onto the serger. My wife already thinks I have too much into a "new" hobby so to buy another servo motor is not really in the mix now. I would like to leave well enough alone but would have to put more money into the imperial to get it sewing. I may try and sell the zigzag to recoup some initial investment. Regardless the direction chosen, i at least have some options. 

 

I may start another topic, but anybody have any info on how much backlash is acceptable in the spiral bevel gear that drives the hook on the 111w155. I dont see anywhere where I can tighten the backlash up and it seems quite a bit. It may be in an acceptable range, but I don't have experience on these machines so am not sure. I may be able to get a video of the backlash.  In timing the hook, it seems that the backlash has a huge impact on the timing. Maybe the gears are wore out. I need to lube that gear set and maybe that will help a bit.  What lube to people suggest? A heavy weight gear lube I presume?!. 

Appreciate any insight. And please let me know if I should start a new thread about the backlash. Thanks in advance.

 

Regards, 

Adam

[mikesc]

Personally I think if you are going to be working leather, you'd be better off selling the serger* and using the money to get the parts for the imperial ( keep it ) and a servo for the 111w115 ( keep it ) ..you can pick up a clutch motor for next to nothing ( that is about what they are worth since servo motors came out ) to put on to the serger to sell it onwards..
How many times does one serge leather ?
~Crickets~

*overlocker for those of us on the right hand side of the pond..

[gottaknow]

1 hour ago, mikesc said:

Personally I think if you are going to be working leather, you'd be better off selling the serger* and using the money to get the parts for the imperial ( keep it ) and a servo for the 111w115 ( keep it ) ..you can pick up a clutch motor for next to nothing ( that is about what they are worth since servo motors came out ) to put on to the serger to sell it onwards..
How many times does one serge leather ?
~Crickets~

*overlocker for those of us on the right hand side of the pond..

When garment leather is joined to woven fabric, for example denim, it is always serged. Not because the leather frays of course, but because denim does. We serge lamb skin collars to heavy wool. Small round point needles do a fine job joining lightweight leathers. We serge every thing we can in the factory to eliminate bobbin changes and to build stretch into garment seams. But yeah, most hobbyists have no use for one. 

Regards, Eric 

[dikman]

" My wife already thinks I have too much into a "new" hobby ". Far from it, you've got off to a very cheap start!! A servo is pretty cheap over there and it will probably be the best investment you could make for the Singer. Get what you can for the serger, fit the servo and you'll be happy.

[sandyt]

I have only experience with the old quick rotan. Do you have a pic? Mine had one slow setting. Which is pretty slow and one stitch at a time if needed. After this slow setting you just have a clutch motor. Enough topics about this.

I liked the qick rotan very much. Needle up and down position makes work very easy and fast. The electronics inside looked very simple. Only a few components on a small curcuit board. Not like the efka's with al LOT of electronics inside.

If you don't want to spend extra money and want to spend time switching the quick to the singer, I would say go for it. The clutch motor on the singer is pretty useless for knive sheets. The quick would do an awsome job in the slow setting. 

Sandy.

[mikesc]

When garment leather is joined to woven fabric, for example denim, it is always serged. Not because the leather frays of course, but because denim does. We serge lamb skin collars to heavy wool. Small round point needles do a fine job joining lightweight leathers. We serge every thing we can in the factory to eliminate bobbin changes and to build stretch into garment seams. But yeah, most hobbyists have no use for one.

Regards, Eric

Despite being very uncomfortable with disagreeing with you Eric ( especially given the help that you have given me ) .I have to disagree there re "joining woven textile to leather"with a serger..

Maybe it depends on what one is making , aswel as whether it is in the context of "production" or "hobby"..Example most of my designs are made for me as "production "runs in Asia after I produce the original samples and send them to the factories, for the factories* to work to.

I mainly design for women's garments, for our own labels and for others ( the design process is more interesting and challenging, the markups are better, and I began by designing way back in the 70s for my girlfriends ).Mostly what you would call clubwear, with some lingerie, some BDSM, some Goth etc , some "fashion"..such as skirts, trousers ( ladies pants to the USA ) jackets, from "shrugs" to "biker", boleros , waistcoats and corsetry.

Leather is usually lambskin, goatskin, calfskin, some cowhide and buffalo, and some "exotics" ( reptiles, fishskins, ostrich etc )..and some "stretch lambskin", this is lambskin backed ( stuck to or fused to ) with cotton ( like tee-shirt cotton , it is a "knitted" textile which has various percentages of lycra incorporated, so as to "spring back"..makes very "clingy" tight fit leather..harder to work with than normal lambskin, requires much more careful, planning, cutting, sewing etc ), but as in general womens wear ( even in purely textile )is far more "constructed / architectural" than menswear, once you begin working with leather and lace etc in the same garments, you kind of get used to the "it isn't going to be easy, but it is fun, and the scenery is great"..

Linings, also a lot of stretch fabrics that are not knitted.

Silk..( either "charmeuse" or raw, raw is scratchy , so raw is rarely "next to skin"..some moires and other luxury silks and even occasional woollens ) ..lot of stretch silk, which frays even worse than "normal" silk, and ( in case anyone is wondering, is, like "stretch" lambskin, in that the stretch is not equal in all directions, which must be allowed for when laying out and cutting, especially if you have a pattern or a logo repeating and accurate joins of such to respect.

Rarely use polyester or synthetics, firstly because they are not "luxury" ( which is what we make ), and secondly, because they do not feel / look as good..The exception to this being the use of lycra in textiles for "stretch"..like lace ,and of course some "metallic" finish textiles.

Denim, as liners and sometimes as intermediate liners ( leather denim , silk sandwiches ) such as in corsets, bustiers and bras (if there is a lot of seaming or boning that would irritate if all that was separating it from the skin was silk, denim makes a good solid lightweight comfort layer or "comfort padding", and it wicks perspiration away very well.

In all of these, whether the clubwear, the lingerie, the biker style jackets, the corsets etc, I have never used a serger to join the textile ( woven or knitted ) to the leather, be it 0.7 mm lambskin or thicker, or 2mm to 3mm buffalo..Used a serger to stop the edges of the textile from fraying whilst constructing the linings,yes, but never for joining / attaching the lining to the leather, the way a serger sews, the visible stitches look like crap, so they are always on the inside ( like in lycra bikinis ) never visible either "topside" or when the garment is open and the lining is visible.I've never seen anyone else do this ( use a serger to attach woven or knitted textile linings to leather garments either ) neither the stuff made for chainstores ( the kind of leatherwear that Walmart etc has made for them in India ) ..nor the budget / discount / biker gear like Schott etc sell, nor the high end designer wear like Gaultier or Lang or McQueen , Lauren or Jitrois or Bui**.

I rarely design menswear, so maybe sergers are used for joining woven textiles like denim to leather in some circumstances, but I obviously own some, made by other people/ companies /designers, all my leather jackets ( two of them are sheepskin lined and one is entirely sheepskin, one is cowhide lined with heavy plaid, none have the linings attached with a serger stitch ) my waistcoats, cowhide and buffalo all have their linings ( woven polycotton ) attached with lockstitch, not with serger stitch.

I know that you work with far greater range of products and machines than I do, or have, and have way more experience than I do in the production side, but as I said above, I've certainly never seen anyone in the high end fashion production*** attaching woven textile to leather with sergers, serger stitching just looks so awful, that even in the so called "constructionist" styles ( where all the seams are on the outside and the stitches are huge and frequently in contrast colours to the base ) I've never seen anyone use a serger where the stitches can be seen, which is where they'd be if one used a serger to attach..Unless you mean that the serger is used to attach the woven textile to the leather and then the resultant seam is hidden inside and then the seam stitched down flat again from the outside with lockstitch ? But in all the high end stuff at least that I've seen or designed, the linings ( if they are serged to prevent fraying ) have the serger run around their edges ( which are then turned over and pressed flat ) before they are attached with lockstitch to the leather.

***That is in production runs of dozens or maybe hundreds or thousands of each design.

Hence why I posted what I did above..

I'm intrigued as to what garments one would sew linings in with a serger..and what the finished seams and garments look like..

You obviously make them, but it sounds so weird, like if you said "we attach the linings with saddle stitch"..I'd think.."folksy", but weird :)

*factories with a few hundred workers in each, no child labour, full 9001 cert etc, and I know personally the owners ( was at art school in the UK in the 70s with each of them )..One of them makes for a major US leatherwear / biker wear brand and some EU brands in the same sector..the other are OEM manufacturers for well known leatherwear labels, mainly in fashion and clubwear and lingerie.

**Ms Bui has a house a couple hundred yards away from me, so, I could always go and ask her ( but won't, she doesn't come here at weekends and holidays to "talk shop", but to relax and for the beaches, might ask her if I run into her in the supermarket again though ) , she has some sheepskin and rabbit skin lined women's wear ( at least one coat is sheepskin lined with a leather outer ) in her fall / winter collection for 2017.

Edited June 5, 2017 by mikesc

[kiddcaprix]

Awesome info all, to be honest the serger (overlocker) is only going to be used for making clothing like dresses for the wife and tshirts/clothes for my toddlers and some workwear.  I picked up a cheap Janome and decided to make a dress for the wife with it. It came out well and decided to bid on the Brother thinking I wouldn't get it for cheap. To my surprise I did. So I will sell the Janome desktop and keep the Brother. Too nice of a machine to not keep.

I played with the Quick Rotan tonight on the Imperial and got a better grasp on it. I really like the control and ability to put in stitch lenghts and it will run the stitch then stop until I cycle the treadle.  Also, i can slow the stitch way down which will be a big help on the sheaths. The other thing I set up was a button to advance one stitch at a time. That really is a nice feature. I like the ability to run say 3-4 stitches, raise the needle (at some point control the presser foot to lift), all automatically so I can run a lock stitch on the 111w155 without reverse. All I have to do to make the swap is machine a collar that will fit the tone wheel to the hand wheel. Will do that tomorrow at lunch.  I will put the clutch motor on the serger (overlocker) and probably keep the Imperial and build that up with the missing parts and servo motor at some point. If this Rotan didn't have all the features that seem to be beneficial for future use (compared to a "standard" servo) I would leave it on the zigzag but I see more use out of the 111w155.

Appreciate all the insight. So much experience and knowledge floating about, this is why Al Gore invented the internet! JK.

FYI, the quick rotan in question is the Q40SE plus. The motor is QE5542 at 550w (~ 3/4 hp I believe). I will grab some pics. Also, I found the manual (parts 2 and 3 can't find 1) and have them as a pdf if anyone needs them. 

Any clue on the 111w155 backlash issue I stated above? I'll probably start another topic for that.

Regards,

Adam

Edited June 5, 2017 by kiddcaprix

[gottaknow]

No worries mikesc. We serge as much as we can on woven goods. Company I work for has been doing production since 1889. We guarantee every garment for life. That's why we do it. For life is a long time. 

Regards, Eric 

[kiddcaprix]

On 6/4/2017 at 7:08 PM, sandyt said:

I have only experience with the old quick rotan. Do you have a pic? Mine had one slow setting. Which is pretty slow and one stitch at a time if needed. After this slow setting you just have a clutch motor. Enough topics about this.

I liked the qick rotan very much. Needle up and down position makes work very easy and fast. The electronics inside looked very simple. Only a few components on a small curcuit board. Not like the efka's with al LOT of electronics inside.

If you don't want to spend extra money and want to spend time switching the quick to the singer, I would say go for it. The clutch motor on the singer is pretty useless for knive sheets. The quick would do an awsome job in the slow setting. 

Sandy.

Sandy, here are some pics of the Quick Rotan you asked for. And anyone else interesred for that matter. I ended up swaping it onto the Singer 111w. It made sense to move to that one because of the things it can do. And I am a sucker for incorporating newer(ish) technology to old equipment such as this. In doing so, i noticed the tension release plate on the presser foot  (the one that pushes on the pin that releases the thread tension) looked to be broke or really worn down. So in taking that off, I also came to the realization that the presser foot bar was bent pretty bad. I had to straighten it the best I could just to get it out. Well, now the machine is in pieces and waiting for replacement parts.  

If anyone is interested, I can show some pics or maybe a video when its all working.

Regards,

Adam

[kiddcaprix]

Well, I got the Singer all together with the Rotan on it.  Gotta say this thing is a joy to sew on now.  The ability to do a single stitch with a button push is awesome.  With a tap on the pedal, it buries the needle and allows me to get situated.  From that point I can do about a stitch a second up to 3000 spm (wont ever run it that fast, no need). I have it programmed to bury the needle after I let off the foot pedal which is really nice with the knee lift (with a press of the button under the F1 key pictured above I can have that lift out at the end of the stitch on the fly). Makes directional changes super fast and easy.  With a heal tap, it will lift the needle out and I can pull the work piece away with a quick knee lift.  I am super happy with the out come.  Thanks for the comments.

-Adam

[gottaknow]

Glad that worked out for your. I still use a couple machines with Quick Rotan set ups. They seem to just keep going!

Regards, Eric