Comparing Edge Finishes

[garypl]

I have acquired 3 types of edge finish paints and decided to do a comparison of the three.

I painted 3 edges of a piece of 7-8 oz unfinished veg tan using Fiebings Edge Kote, Angelus Acrylic Edge Paint and Giardini MaxMatte Edge Paint.  I thinned the Giardini with about 20% water and the other two I used right out of the bottle.

Picture 1:

 

Picture 2 is the Fiebings Edge Kote.  I applied two coats of each type paint using an edge roller, sanding lightly between coats with 400 grit wet/dry paper.

 

Picture 3 is the Angelus paint:

 

Picture 4 - Giardini paint:

 

I let the paint dry overnight, then took a clean cotton cloth and vigorously rubbed each edge to see how much paint rubbed off.  See results in pictures 5, 6 and 7:

 

The Fiebings had the most paint come off on the cloth.  I noticed that the Fiebings paint felt dull and slightly coarse, while the Angelus and Giardini both felt smoother and almost like plastic.

Next I applied a coat of my leather dressing to each edge, allowed it to dry for a few minutes, then buffed with a clean cloth.  The results are shown in the next 3 pictures:

Fiebings 

 

Angelus

 

Giardini

I was surprised to see how much of the Angelus paint rubbed off, while the Fiebings and Giardini both had very little rub off.  All three edges had a dull luster after buffing.  

In my opinion, the Giardini worked the best.  It gave a durable, smooth finish and I liked the glossy look.  I would not apply any type of finish over the panted edges.  Next I would choose the Angelus paint, followed by Fiebings.  The Giardini was the most cost effective at @$38 delivered for 1 liter (and it can be diluted with 20% water).  It will probably last for many years at the rate I use it, assuming it doesn't gum up from age!

I am interested in hearing from other leather workers who may or may not have had similar results using any of these paints.  Hope some folks find this information to be useful!

[JD62]

     Thanks for the comparison. I've been on the fence with the Giardini and this helped me over!

[garypl]

You're welcome JD62!

[RockyAussie]

Thanks for posting such useful comparisons. I would like to see a comparison with the Giardini as against the Fenice range. One thing that I have found some trouble with is the tendency for a crack line or hollowing to show up in the middle of the edging when applied thickly which can be difficult and time consuming to smooth back out. Regards Brian

[garypl]

Brian - I have not tried the Fenice, but may have to buy a small bottle.  I also am going to see how applying heat with a tool works on the different edge finishes to smooth them out.  I'll post results and pictures when I do.

[Matt S]

Thanks for this comparison, Gary. I'm looking for something to improve on the Edgekote -- i find it's too shiny, doesn't fill very well and takes an age to dry thoroughly. I have a small bottle of Fenice on the way and Norsol, a brand I have only recently come across. I will compare them with Edgekote and post the results.

[garypl]

Hi Matt - thanks and I am interested in hearing about the Norsol - first I have heard of this brand! 

[OLDNSLOW]

Was the Listerine used in any of the testing?(jk) Just wanted to clarify!

Thanks good job, looking forward to more testing!

[garypl]

 

6 hours ago, OLDNSLOW said:

Was the Listerine used in any of the testing?(jk) Just wanted to clarify!

Thanks good job, looking forward to more testing!

Thanks - I use the Listerine when I make a bottle of wetting solution - I read somewhere that it helps prevent mold.  Not sure if it works, but doesn't seem to hurt anything, so I'll keep adding a splash to my solution!

[RockyAussie]

For many years I have used a different named solution (Ares (Italia)S.r.l.) which I believe to be Fenice by a different name. I have generally used it by applying coats and ironing in with a shaped tip soldering iron that I have temperature controlled via a light dimmer switch housed in a box. Picture of iron shown below. It became a bit of a problem here in that the supplier went to needing orders of 10 or more litres at a time and the price per litre by the time it hits here is like $70.00 per litre. Be that I have mixed my own pigments into the clear AR 6350 for years and duller if wanted as well it is difficult to work out effective alternatives. Another re branded product (OMAC) I think is Giardini I have tested in some colours and found that it hollowed out when put on flat leather and sometimes even appeared to get a split line crazing down the middle.I am interested to hear other users experiences with these various edging products. At present I am thinking of doing more trials with the Giadani but will need to look for a good supplier first. Thanks again for starting such a valuable subject thread.

[gigi]

I think some edge finishes work best on veg-tan, while others are meant for chrome-leathers. I don't know if any of those brands are suited for all types of leather. 

[garypl]

Thanks for the photo Brian and comments on the Giardini.  I spent just a few minutes yesterday with a small pallet knife heated with a small alcohol lamp (I use this for applying stick shellac when repairing finishes on wood projects) testing how it smoothed the edge finishes.  It did not feel like it did anything to the Edge Kote, but I could see and feel it melting and smoothing the Angelus and Giardini edges.  I want to do more testing and will publish more photos with the results.

Gigi - good point - I have only worked with these on veg tan, but I have some chrome tan and will use the finishes on that as well and compare with the veg tan.

 

[NVLeatherWorx]

I have tried the Fenice and am not overly impressed with it.  I find that it takes several applications just to get the look that I want and solid coverage and I can't find myself investing that much time in finishing the edges.  So, as a result of that, I have returned to the old school (original teachings here) way of doing things: water, my ancient wooden slicker, and some good old elbow grease.  This gives me the glowing finish that I want and then I run a small dauber with some dye on it down and around and done.  Every time I give some of this newfangled stuff a try I just can't understand where some find it to be a quicker or better method.  Nothing beats just having a true finished leather edge; nothing to crack, peel, or rub off because the dye has penetrated deep into the fibers and the edge has been burnished naturally to a solid finish.

[garypl]

2 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

I have tried the Fenice and am not overly impressed with it.  I find that it takes several applications just to get the look that I want and solid coverage and I can't find myself investing that much time in finishing the edges.  So, as a result of that, I have returned to the old school (original teachings here) way of doing things: water, my ancient wooden slicker, and some good old elbow grease.  This gives me the glowing finish that I want and then I run a small dauber with some dye on it down and around and done.  Every time I give some of this newfangled stuff a try I just can't understand where some find it to be a quicker or better method.  Nothing beats just having a true finished leather edge; nothing to crack, peel, or rub off because the dye has penetrated deep into the fibers and the edge has been burnished naturally to a solid finish.

I agree Richard, that on thicker edges it is easier for me to burnish/dye.  When I use very thin leather that is not easy to burnish, I like to use the edge paint - I get better looking edges this way.  Small items like checkbook covers, eyeglass cases and other projects using thin veg tan - I also do this as a hobby, so I'm not particularly concerned about spending time on these type projects!  Gary

[NVLeatherWorx]

5 minutes ago, garypl said:

I agree Richard, that on thicker edges it is easier for me to burnish/dye.  When I use very thin leather that is not easy to burnish, I like to use the edge paint - I get better looking edges this way.  Small items like checkbook covers, eyeglass cases and other projects using thin veg tan - I also do this as a hobby, so I'm not particularly concerned about spending time on these type projects!  Gary

I even hand burnish/finish 2 to 3 oz. leather, the trick there is to NOT edge it, just burnish it as it is.  Doesn't take as much pressure and time either as it is so thin and quick to heat up to get the proper sheen.  We all have our ways of doing things and I always end up back at the beginning of my training and education in this trade and rely on my 40+ years of hands-on experience; it is nice to learn something new though that actually can find a way into my program.

[garypl]

3 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

I even hand burnish/finish 2 to 3 oz. leather, the trick there is to NOT edge it, just burnish it as it is.  Doesn't take as much pressure and time either as it is so thin and quick to heat up to get the proper sheen.  We all have our ways of doing things and I always end up back at the beginning of my training and education in this trade and rely on my 40+ years of hands-on experience; it is nice to learn something new though that actually can find a way into my program.

How do you hold the thin edges to get a good burnish?  I find it difficult to burnish when the leather is soft - maybe it's just the less than ideal quality leather I am using?  I'm trying to improve my skills and I appreciate the tips and suggestions I receive from everyone who contributes in this forum - thank you!

[Mattsbagger]

I will lay it on the edge of my stone and use canvas on the thin stuff.

1 hour ago, garypl said:

How do you hold the thin edges to get a good burnish?  I find it difficult to burnish when the leather is soft - maybe it's just the less than ideal quality leather I am using?  I'm trying to improve my skills and I appreciate the tips and suggestions I receive from everyone who contributes in this forum - thank you!

 

[gigi]

Giardini has a user guide on their website but you need to register in order to download it:  

http://info.leatheredgepaint.com/how-to-achieve-the-highest-quality-on-your-leather-edge

[NVLeatherWorx]

3 hours ago, garypl said:

How do you hold the thin edges to get a good burnish?  I find it difficult to burnish when the leather is soft - maybe it's just the less than ideal quality leather I am using?  I'm trying to improve my skills and I appreciate the tips and suggestions I receive from everyone who contributes in this forum - thank you!

Hold the leather between your index finger and thumb about a 1/2" from the edge; make sure that your leather has started to return to the drier side and then carefully burnish the edges.  I have found over the years that when someone came to me with a problem trying to get a good burnish on their edges that they were trying to work the leather while it was still too wet.  You have to wait until the edges are almost dry (just like when stamping or carving & tooling) in order to get a good a result.  This why people also have issues with beveling and pear shading when doing tooled patterns; it makes all the difference in the world.

[garypl]

4 hours ago, Mattsbagger said:

I will lay it on the edge of my stone and use canvas on the thin stuff.

 

Thanks Mattsbagger - I will try your technique!

3 hours ago, gigi said:

Giardini has a user guide on their website but you need to register in order to download it:  

http://info.leatheredgepaint.com/how-to-achieve-the-highest-quality-on-your-leather-edge

Thanks Gigi - I will download the manual!

1 hour ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

Hold the leather between your index finger and thumb about a 1/2" from the edge; make sure that your leather has started to return to the drier side and then carefully burnish the edges.  I have found over the years that when someone came to me with a problem trying to get a good burnish on their edges that they were trying to work the leather while it was still too wet.  You have to wait until the edges are almost dry (just like when stamping or carving & tooling) in order to get a good a result.  This why people also have issues with beveling and pear shading when doing tooled patterns; it makes all the difference in the world.

Thanks for the tips Richard - I will certainly try out your suggestions!

[RockyAussie]

20 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

I have tried the Fenice and am not overly impressed with it.  I find that it takes several applications just to get the look that I want and solid coverage and I can't find myself investing that much time in finishing the edges.  So, as a result of that, I have returned to the old school (original teachings here) way of doing things: water, my ancient wooden slicker, and some good old elbow grease.  This gives me the glowing finish that I want and then I run a small dauber with some dye on it down and around and done.  Every time I give some of this newfangled stuff a try I just can't understand where some find it to be a quicker or better method.  Nothing beats just having a true finished leather edge; nothing to crack, peel, or rub off because the dye has penetrated deep into the fibers and the edge has been burnished naturally to a solid finish.

I have to agree that burnishing can be a lot quicker way to go when you can but unfortunately I have to deal a lot with dissimilar leather combinations and even when crocodile is done full veg tanned the hard and soft between the scales makes burnishing near to impossible for me. I have to also do my best with a wide range of often vibrant colours and chrome tanning, re tanned and many other as well. As most of the products I make are for the higher end even the edges of my wallet folds where their seen have to have colour matched edging. As far as any peeling or rubbing off goes the techniques I've developed over the years have minimalised these issues near to non existent. Too slick an edge before edge coat is the biggest mistake that some people make as that can lead to peeling up and as you say you want that colour to deeply penetrate into the leather fibres. Note: I don't use these edge coats on greasy or bridle type leathers and on these leather types I agree fully with burnishing as the only way I know of. Normal veg tooling type leathers are no problem with edge coating if not overly slicked up before application. I have put below a few product pictures to hopefully show a bit of what I am trying to get at. Brian

[RockyAussie]

On 30/07/2017 at 3:47 AM, Matt S said:

Thanks for this comparison, Gary. I'm looking for something to improve on the Edgekote -- i find it's too shiny, doesn't fill very well and takes an age to dry thoroughly. I have a small bottle of Fenice on the way and Norsol, a brand I have only recently come across. I will compare them with Edgekote and post the results.

Hi Matt S, if you find the edging a bit to shiny it will dull down when ironed in with a iron not too hot. I do this sometimes and just finish of with a wax polish which can give a nice satiny sheen. If it has to be extra well finished sometimes I dull with a chemical I get made up but you can achieve the same with a talcum powder if used carefully.It needs to be shaken well before use as it can settle a bit after a while.If you use too much powder you will increase the hollowing/craze line up the middle problem as I have found on the Giardini colours when applied thickly. I have not tried the black Giardini and cant say if it has this problem.Brain

Edited July 31, 2017 by RockyAussie
forgot something

[Ben00]

On 7/29/2017 at 10:43 PM, RockyAussie said:

Brian, 

regarding the chemical you use to finish your edges just a bit more if needed, what did you say it was called? 
and it makes your edges an extra bit smoother after applying edge coat and soldering with your iron correct? 
- Ben

[RockyAussie]

38 minutes ago, Ben00 said:

regarding the chemical you use to finish your edges just a bit more if needed, what did you say it was called? 
and it makes your edges an extra bit smoother after applying edge coat and soldering with your iron correct? 
- Ben

Depending on where in the world you are...Campbell Randall had it once but I think you would have to order 20 litres of it at a time if you are in the USA. In Australia here I get Ares AR 6350 which is just Fenice 6350 rebranded. It is thermo mouldable. The other Fenice range that ends in P or plus I think is more of a poly urethane type compound which is not very thermomouldable but is a very durable edge. It seems to have to be sanded more than ironed and for me too slow to use in comparison. Many have gone to using the Giardini range these days and a lot seem to like it but it needs sanding as well. I found too many problems such as shelf life and edge splitting problems with it myself but they may have improved since those trials. For black I use OMAC semi matt black 9OM 357556 which I think may be a rebranded Kenda Farben product. Most of this stuff can be found under shoe finishing products. I hope this helps some.

[Doc Reaper]

I have been doing leather shhtuff for over 50 years, I try products that are sold from the leather stores I enter personally. I have been on this site for 11 years and would use this place as inspiration or gain the knowledge I don’t have.

I have many books that discuss leather, dyes, tools, and other such items. 
I never knew of these edge finishers and I though that Fiebings and Angeles were the only two contenders, but thanks to you good folks, my addiction worsens! And I live in Central North Carolina where the hobby shops are far to basic compared to what most of us need!

I moisten my finger with water, wood slicker, die, slick again. But one of you guys mentioned wax! So I purchased a slicker from the “Leather Toolmaker” and placed it in my drill press, and some items are waxed (mostly biker bags) while others just get the wet finger and the wooden stick. 

I have purchased items from a handful of ya but still have to trip over some items (like Wild Harry’s items from Aussie) and want to find more but I don’t have much tripping time left!

If y’all have knowledge of cool items that make a job easier PM me and I will open a new post and most likely purchase it from ya.