Dürkopp 18 Patcher Restoration - long journey...

[Constabulary]

System 657 is like the System 88 needle but 657 has a longer tip - thats all. They are interchangeable.

I somewhere have a pack of 657 I think. Let me check...

[Oluffen]

I have found this on the webpage for Groz-Beckert and if there is any logic to the suffix H this needle would be the same as the 657 but with a shoulder, but maybe that´s totally wrong needle?

Groz-Beckert 215 AH - Also called 657 H

and also

Groz-Beckert 88 - Also called 175, DUx1, DUx2

Edited July 19, 2020 by Oluffen

[Constabulary]

I do not know what 215AH / 657H is but don´t let just the numbers confuse you!

Just as a sample:

A system 81 needle is not the same as 81x1 needle. 81 is for patchers (Like Claes 200-1, 200-2, 8345-1 8345-2...) but he the 81x1 is a much shorter needle for serger machines (singer 81, Adler 81, Mauser...). Better check the measures!

 

EDIT:

just found this regarding 215AH so they pretty much the same as it seems - I guess the 215 AH has a scarf and the Sy. 88 does not (not sure though)

https://www.strima.com/215-ah-suk-110-schmetz-sewing-machine-needle-g04-1box-100-pcs/item-309798

 

EDIT II:

My 657 has no scarf but a longer tip than the 88 that's the only difference I can see.

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Constabulary

[Oluffen]

Yes, but I find it very hard to get hold of the length of the needles. As I have understood the diameter is rather straight forward to get, but I find no way to get the length of the needles. Or is it jut me being a bit stupid or to knew in this game?

 

[Constabulary]

It´s indeed challenging. Some websites show technical pictures of the most common needles. Finding technical information on vintage needles can be tough.

Fortunately I have an old book where needles are pictured in original sizes. Not all needles are shown, just the most common of that time (Book is from the 1940´s I think)

[Oluffen]

Ok thank you for all information (again!) and good to hear that it´s not only me being stupid not finding the lenght of the needles! :-)

I have in total 5  more or less old "industrial" sewing machines. The other 3 are a Singer 29K 4, a Husqvarna 27-10 and a Durkopp 265. Those should not be that hard finding needles for, at least I hope!

 

[Wizcrafts]

Please don't take this as a professional option, but, couldn't one buy a longer less obscure needle that has the same upper shank diameter as the original and grind the top down until those needles are in time with the hook? This would help fill in the gap where nobody makes a particular system for your old machines but longer ones would fit if trimmed down.

[Oluffen]

@Wizcrafts I don´t really know cause I´m a real newbie in this but probably there is people doing just that, but I guess if you sew a lot it gets tiresome to do the job every time you need to change the needle. At least on domestic machines people sometimes do modifications to the machine instead, but I think that would be a shame on these old nice machines.

I am surprised that there seems to be no one specializing in doing custom needles to people.  My opinion is that with the technology of today it would not be impossible to make needles with ok quality, but i may be wrong!

Regards,

Johan

 

[MikeRock]

On needles........I just went through a series of emails asking Schmetz to simply make a longer thread groove in 26-200, 26-230, 26-250 and 26-300 needles.  Just an additional 0.600" of grind, no other changes.  The Chicago branch sent it to Germany and they told me first that they could do it.  I offered to have a hundred of each needle modified.  Next they told me that a Landis #1 was an awl and hook machine and they were not interested.  I sent them part photos and the fact that we use Schmetz needles now, courtesy of Eli.  They then got snooty and said due to Covid they were not interested........  It's not polite to swear on this site so I won't.  That is Scmetz for you.........     I guess I'll set up one of my tool and cutter grinders with a 1" dia. high speed diamond and grind the damned things myself. 

[Constabulary]

5 hours ago, MikeRock said:

On needles........I just went through a series of emails asking Schmetz to simply make a longer thread groove in 26-200, 26-230, 26-250 and 26-300 needles.  Just an additional 0.600" of grind, no other changes.  The Chicago branch sent it to Germany and they told me first that they could do it.  I offered to have a hundred of each needle modified.  Next they told me that a Landis #1 was an awl and hook machine and they were not interested.  I sent them part photos and the fact that we use Schmetz needles now, courtesy of Eli.  They then got snooty and said due to Covid they were not interested........  It's not polite to swear on this site so I won't.  That is Scmetz for you.........     I guess I'll set up one of my tool and cutter grinders with a 1" dia. high speed diamond and grind the damned things myself. 

Honesty - do you expect that a company like Schmetz / Groz-Beckert is "simply" making a small batch of just a few hundred needles with a slightly longer grove just for you? Really?

As far as I know Schmetz is no longer producing needles in Germany and has been taken over by Groz-Beckert a few years ago. So I guess the majority of GB and Schmetz needles is coming from Overseas sources nowadays. I´m not sure if GB is still producing in Germany at all. A while ago I noticed that new Schmetz needle packs no longer have the imprint "MADE IN GERMANY" it now says "MADE BY SCHMETZ" - hmmmmm ... pretty sure that's for a reason.

EDIT:

The latest pack does not even say "MADE BY SCHMETZ" .... maybe for a reason - I don´t know.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Constabulary