Buying first leather sewing machine

[Mocivnik]

So,

since I'm quite new to the leatherwork, I'm also new to machines. I do all of my work for now by hands, which consist of stitching together (most of the times) 2-3 layers of 5/6 oz. or 7/8 oz. veg tan leather, but I would like to upgrade that with a sewing machine.

Since I come from a very small country and don't have much of a choice, I'm quite limited to only 3 companies, that sells their leather-sewing machines (their distributor is in my country only) and we're talking about Durkopp Adler, Golden Wheel and Juki, but I don't know the proper models. Let's just say, that distributor can get them all :D
The budget isn't something much, but I'll try to get what people here would recommend, so any recomendations are welcome!

The things I would like to sew are mentioned before, so 2-3 layers (and occasinaly even 4 but that's rare) of 7/8 oz. veg tan leather.
And the optional would be with double stitching, such as shown on picture below:

[Uwe]

Since your budget is limited, you'll probably get a Golden Wheel, the brand of the Chee Siang Sewing Machine company. Luckily, Chee Siang is one of the very big companies that produces high quality copies of many original designs. They make nearly everything, or so it seems. I have yet to find a famous machine design that they don't make. The Golden Wheel brand doesn't have much of a presence in the U.S. But I strongly suspect they are behind many of the aftermarket brands that are sold in North America.

Check out the website at http://www.golden-wheel.cn/en/product-2  in the "Heavy Duty" section, either under Flatbed or Cylinder bed. Each of these categories have a "Unison Feed" section. There you will find all the candidates for your work. For example they have cylinder arm machines of Juki TSC-441 (CS-441) , Durkopp Adler 205 (CS-205), and Pfaff 335 (CS-335) designs. That small sample right there covers the majority of machine designs people on this forum use and recommend.

On the flatbed side, check out their version of the latest Durkopp Adler 867 design, the CSU-8671 (not cheap, but it's the machine design I would buy new right now - it's bound to be a future classic.) The other flatbed unison feed machines are all designs you'll recognize from discussions on this forum.

One other nice part is that Golden Wheel posts most manuals right on their website, which is how it should be. They also make and sell parts for their machines, not all aftermarket companies do.

Good luck with finding a nice machine!

 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Uwe

[Mocivnik]

Hmm..yes. The budget is quite holding me back at most of my work lately, but I always try to get as much as possible for the limited budget.

Also there's the thing, that I probably will never sell my leatherwork (or at least as much to pay off the sewing machine), so I will just try to buy something from middle-class. I don't want the cheapest, as I want to work good and for a long time with the machine, and also not the very top, because I'm new to leatherworks.

I guess I should also list down things I want to work (one day..), so...the leather machine should be suitable for knife/axe sheats, leather belts (6/7 oz. veg tan), maybe messenger bags/pencases, gun holsters, belt holsters for various things (such as cameras, phones, etc.). As from amateur's view point, I think that there should be a single sewing machine, that would handle all listed things I'd like to make.

I'd also like to point out the fact, I'm using the 150D Leather Sewing Waxed thread (link to the thread).

And what prices are we talking about for example something from middlerange from Durkopp Adler or Golden wheel? The seller in my country hasn't listed any prices and demands to give prices only for single offer.

List below shows the sewing machines, that dealer in my country currently offers, is there any of them suitable for me?

Durkopp Adler:

Durkopp Adler 888-160122

Durkopp Adler 888-260122

Durkopp Adler 888-460522M

Durkopp Adler 523i

Durkopp Adler 524i

Durkopp Adler 525i

Durkopp Adler 887-160122

Durkopp Adler 669-180010
 

Golden wheel:

Golden Wheel CS-8881 (Pfaff 1591BL)

Golden Wheel CS-8883-MBFT

Golden Wheel CSR-8891D-LBFT (Pfaff 591)

Golden Wheel CSR-8892D-LBFT (Pfaff 592)

Golden Wheel CS-8830 (Pfaf 574)

Golden Wheel CS-8850DN-MBFT/L (Durkopp 888)

Golden Wheel CS-4060 (Strobel)

Golden Wheel CST-4060 (Strobel)

Golden Wheel CS-8910SC

Golden Wheel CS-8911C

Golden Wheel CS-8911M

Golden Wheel CS-335L-PH

Golden Wheel CS-8369

Edited August 6, 2017 by Mocivnik

[Uwe]

You may not be able to use your braided waxed thread in a sewing machine, at least not for long. You'll spend two hours cleaning the wax out of the machine every time you use it.

Consider not buying from your local dealer, especially if they're all weird about even giving you a price. You're country is part of the EU and the Schengen Zone, which makes for super easy cross-border travel and purchasing. Take advantage of that.

Personally, I'd plan an overnight road trip to Bayreuth in Germany (6 hours drive) and visit Sieck.  Germany is place to be to get good, used original Durkopp Adler machines. Sieck has lots of nice, original machines both new and used and their prices are very good in my opinion. The Sieck website lists prices for almost everything they sell - it's a great reference. 

Consider the SIECK 267-373, which is their version of the Durkopp Adler 267-373 for 1.800 Euro with a nice servo motor. They also have the original Durkopp Adler 267-373 machines used for even less.

 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Uwe

[Yetibelle]

I struggled with "what machine is good for me" for the last few years.  I am glad I started with old antique machines so I could get use to the big machines before I got a new machine.  Chances are the first machine you get will be good but you will realize you should have got a different one.  I  recommend finding a good used machine and spending as little as possible starting out.  You can practice and get over the learning curve for less money.  

[Mocivnik]

@Uwe:
Hmm...and unwaxed with same dimensions? The wax I'd say is optional here and just offers as much as gliding while sewing and "sticking" just a bit while it's done. But I don't find it decisive (I hope I'm not wrong).

Yep, but that's the only thing I've had for an option, until I started to think "outside the...country". Yes, I know that a Germany is very good for used items and even proper to find things as such there. I will try to search german ebay also, I just might find anything there.

What type of machines should I be looking for or "how will I know, that the machine will stitch 3 layers of 7/8 oz. veg. tan. leather"? What's the crucial information for me here?

Also, what about foot-drived sewing machines? I found used in my country EXTREMELY (~200$) cheap and for a good start, I'd reconsider about using one?
Most of them are Pfaff or even Singer, but you can get them in mixed conditions, some even on tables, that came along.

@Yetibelle:  Yes, certainly I want to practice with different sewing machines!

[dikman]

For what it's worth , I have some braided thread that is ex-factory, used for shoe/bootmaking, and I cannot get it to sew reliably with any of my machines. The braiding always seems to snag somewhere at some point. Pity, it's really nice thread. Your list of things that you want to sew is fine for probably most "medium" machines that are commonly used here - except for holsters! They require a heavy duty machine. If you look at the list of machines that I have they're probably amongst the most common types, but none of them can do holsters (unfortunately). Holsters I still sew by hand.

[Uwe]

I'd stay away from Ebay until you know what you're doing - it's a gamble under the best of circumstances.

Buy from a reputable dealer or somebody you trust. Most people on Ebay do NOT know how to ship a sewing machine and thousands of machines have died in transit.

In general, industrial sewing machines are designed to sew whatever you can fit under the foot. Look for unison feed (bottom+top+needle) machines with at least 10-12mm foot lift.

Resist the temptation to change the question every time you get an answer.

For sewing multiple layers of leather, a bottom-only feed machine will not make you happy. 

[Yetibelle]

13 hours ago, Uwe said:

I'd stay away from Ebay until you know what you're doing - it's a gamble under the best of circumstances.

Buy from a reputable dealer or somebody you trust. Most people on Ebay do NOT know how to ship a sewing machine and thousands of machines have died in transit.

In general, industrial sewing machines are designed to sew whatever you can fit under the foot. Look for unison feed (bottom+top+needle) machines with at least 10-12mm foot lift.

Resist the temptation to change the question every time you get an answer.

For sewing multiple layers of leather, a bottom-only feed machine will not make you happy. 

I think this is my new meditation chanting mantra:

"Resist the temptation to change the question every time you get an answer."

 

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by Yetibelle

[Mocivnik]

Thanks everyone for answers!

 

@Uwe: Sorry for changing question every time, but I don't know nothing about sewing machines and therefore I'm just asking tons of questions..like I will do now:

 

How about sewing machines by hand (or how they are even called?!)? Are they worth  of buying?

Like that one on the picture below:

[Yetibelle]

Well there are plenty of comments on the Tippman hand machine.  If you get one cheep and working it's worth it, but most of them sell used for $800 plus so for that much you can get a good used motor driven walking foot machine. 

[Mocivnik]

Hmm...I didn't realise, they are SO expensive.

But for a begginner, is there even any chance of getting anything under 300$ (used, ofcourse)?

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, Mocivnik said:

Hmm...I didn't realise, they are SO expensive.

But for a begginner, is there even any chance of getting anything under 300$ (used, ofcourse)?

Watch any local online or newspaper classified ads for private sellers or businesses trying to get rid of an upholstery walking foot sewing machine. These machines are used to sew cloth and leather seat covers, boat covers, banners, tarps, tents, bags, etc. By the time the owners sell them they are well used and worn out. But, you may be able to find one you can afford, then pay to replace worn parts as you go.

Seven years ago I decided to get back into sewing leather after selling all of my machines. The second machine I bought was a used, but not abused walking foot machine that had been sitting idle in a business that made window blinds. I only paid $300 for that machine! It paid for itself in one month of home sewing jobs!

[Mocivnik]

18 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Watch any local online or newspaper classified ads for private sellers or businesses trying to get rid of an upholstery walking foot sewing machine. These machines are used to sew cloth and leather seat covers, boat covers, banners, tarps, tents, bags, etc. By the time the owners sell them they are well used and worn out. But, you may be able to find one you can afford, then pay to replace worn parts as you go.

Seven years ago I decided to get back into sewing leather after selling all of my machines. The second machine I bought was a used, but not abused walking foot machine that had been sitting idle in a business that made window blinds. I only paid $300 for that machine! It paid for itself in one month of home sewing jobs!

Exactly, what I did!

I got a few offers for about 800$, but that's the price they want it for old, used machines.

I am very unsure in three things now:

1. How do I know, if the machine is proper for leather sewing, based on look? (and how thick leather can it sew)

2. So, what I'm looking for is bottom AND top feed, which means with walking foot, right?

3. Flat vs. cylinder bed: If I got this right, it's cylinder bed ment for shoemaking and holsters, while the flat bed is for knife sheats, bags, etc.?

 

What you can get in my country for under 150$ right now:

 

price for below: 120$

price for below: 10$

 

for below: 50$

 

for below: 60$

 

for below: 100$

[mikesc]

The first machine ( pedestal type ..it has bottom feed and a roller ) is the sort usually used for shoes or bags ( you could make a table for it )..it might be able to sew the thickness that you would want ( ?..hard to tell because the photo is dark with no detail..what does the advert say , what machine is it ..manufacturer, model ..number ..?

the last one ( lowest on your set ) is a domestic machine..not good for what you want.
the other two..
the second one is bottom feed only
the third one ( adler ) might be bottom feed with "walking foot )..but I don't think so, ..hard to tell ..photo is too dark and the angle is bad to see the needle area.
the fourth one ( pfaff 31 )is a domestic machine..no good for what you want..
better picture of a pfaff 31on a forum elsewhere..see
https://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage-antique-machine-enthusiasts-f22/pfaff-treadle-31-a-t179170.html
copy and paste that into your address bar to see.

the fifth one is a domestic machine..no good for what you want..

Ideally you want what is called "compound feed"..means that feed is with "dogs" at the bottom..and also pulling "feed" with the needle..and feed "help" with two walking feet..so when you look at the needle area..you should see three vertical bars..one to hold the needle..the other two are for the "walking feet"..

Edited August 26, 2017 by mikesc

[Mocivnik]

1 hour ago, mikesc said:

The first machine ( pedestal type ..it has bottom feed and a roller ) is the sort usually used for shoes or bags ( you could make a table for it )..it might be able to sew the thickness that you would want ( ?..hard to tell because the photo is dark with no detail..what does the advert say , what machine is it ..manufacturer, model ..number ..?

the last one ( lowest on your set ) is a domestic machine..not good for what you want.
the other two..
the second one is bottom feed only
the third one ( adler ) might be bottom feed with "walking foot )..but I don't think so, ..hard to tell ..photo is too dark and the angle is bad to see the needle area.
the fourth one ( pfaff 31 )is a domestic machine..no good for what you want..
better picture of a pfaff 31on a forum elsewhere..see
https://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage-antique-machine-enthusiasts-f22/pfaff-treadle-31-a-t179170.html
copy and paste that into your address bar to see.

the fifth one is a domestic machine..no good for what you want..

Ideally you want what is called "compound feed"..means that feed is with "dogs" at the bottom..and also pulling "feed" with the needle..and feed "help" with two walking feet..so when you look at the needle area..you should see three vertical bars..one to hold the needle..the other two are for the "walking feet"..
 

@mikesc: thank you very much for a comment!

So, first thing first: a domestic machine is out of the question. Good, this cleans off 1/3 of all machines out there (vs. electric and vs. Tippman hand machine). Great.

Next, what should I be looking for is a walking foot (3 bars from the top; needle and 2 on the walking feet.

If the foot could be lifted up to 10mm above the table, it's proper for sewing whatever you can feed under it? Is that correct, is that something I should be looking for at the machines? (if I want, as I said in first post; sew 2-3 layers of 2.5mm thick veg tan leather together, but that's maximum. I will mostly just sew 1-2 layers of 2.5mm veg tan).

[mikesc]

So, first thing first: a domestic machine is out of the question. Good, this cleans off 1/3 of all machines out there (vs. electric and vs. Tippman hand machine). Great.

You can use some industrial machines ( that were designed to have, and originally supplied with a motor) with a treadle table froma domestic machine..it means altering the table a little ( and reinforcing it ) ..but can be done..just in case you find a cheap industrial machine with a non working motor and can get a domestic treadle table with a non working machine "head"..you can put them together to make a working machine.

Next, what should I be looking for is a walking foot (3 bars from the top; needle and 2 on the walking feet.

Yes..But..probably better to explain why ;-)
So..
The usual type of feed on domestic machines ( and on industrial machines that are designed to sew textiles ) is "Feed from the bottom"..or "bottom feed" or "drop feed" or "simple feed"..( needle bar and foot bar ..two bars )<= You might see them described using any of those phrases..or the equivalents in your local language..What it means is that the thing you are sewing is moved towards the back of the machine ( away from the operator ) and towards the needle by a plate ( which has teeth ) which rises from under the bed of the machine and and pulls the textile away from you towards the needle...This is OK for textiles..as long as the "sandwiches of the layers" are not too thick in total..or are not slippery.
On slippery materials..or when dealing with "sandwiches" of multiple layers of material..the upper and lower layers may not move in "co-ordination"..and so you'll get "dropped stitches" and a crappy finish..So..no good for leather.

Next type of feed is "Upper and lower feed"( needle bar and afoot bar ..two bars )..I have an industrial machine which does this ..Juki DLU 490 4 ..
It can stitch leather, but the upper and lower layers of the "sandwich" can still slip in relation to each other..and..most importantly..it has teeth on the bottom feed dogs and on the top ones..so it can mark veg tan leather badly on both the top and the bottom..but it is OK for plastics and chrome tan..and for veg tan where any marks on the surface are not important.

Then there is "needle feed"..this is where the needle pierces the textile ( or leather ) "sandwich" and ( at the same time as the lower feed dogs move the "sandwich" backwards..so does the needle ) ..very good for sewing layers of anything which would try to slide over each other as they are held in unison by the needle spearing through all the layers whilst the stitch is made..But..on leather (especially veg tan )..not so good..because the leather is more dense than textile and so has tendency to "stick" to the needle as it rises and so "interrupts" the formation of the stitches..( this type only has a needle bar and a foot bar..two bars )..But..if you have a roller where the top "foot" would normally be ..
( the top machine in your set of photos has a roller )..then the leather is held down by the roller as it is being stitched..and the roller usually doesn't leave a strong mark on the leather surface..( some roller machines do not have needle feed, some do .."with needle feed" is better )..Shoe makers use these "roller" machines a lot because they allow you to make curved lines of stitches very easily..

Then there is "compound feed"..This is where the bottom feed dogs raise and grip the leather from below, the needle pierces the "sandwich", the two top feet"alternate" in pressing the leather downwards ..this means that the sandwich has no chance to slip out of alignment at all..and the alternating feet used for leather work are usually smooth on their bases so that they do not mark the leather..This is ideal..

Now.."clearance"..How much you can lift the foot is only an approximate guide..Because when you lift the foot , at the very highest point of the lift, there is usually a mechanism that releases the thread tension..so..if you can lift 12mm, in reality you'll only have tension ( and be able to sew ) until around 10mm..example..I have a singer 211U166A..it has foot lift via a hand lever of about 12mm..it also has foot lift via a knee lifter of around 14mm to 16mm, but in reality the internal mechanism releases the thread tension at around 10mm..I can get 12mm under the foot, and if it can squash the layers don to 10 it will stitch fine..but if the layers are too dense to squash ..it will stitch badly, missing loads of stitches..it is only supposed to be able to stitch 9mm..so I'm happy at 10mm..even though I can get 14mm under the foot.

HTH :)

There are other combinations and varieties of "feed"..but these are the only ones that you need to be concerned with re "leather machines"..for now..

Edited August 26, 2017 by mikesc

[dikman]

If you can only have one machine a cylinder arm is more versatile, but a flatbed should do what you want to do - except holsters, don't even think about doing holsters on any machine unless it is heavy duty. Most machines in the "medium weight" range should have a lift around 10 mm. You need to look for industrial walking foot machines, ignore anything else regardless if the seller says things like "industrial quality", "semi-industrial" etc.

[Mocivnik]

23 hours ago, mikesc said:

 

 

 

 

You can use some industrial machines ( that were designed to have, and originally supplied with a motor) with a treadle table froma domestic machine..it means altering the table a little ( and reinforcing it ) ..but can be done..just in case you find a cheap industrial machine with a non working motor and can get a domestic treadle table with a non working machine "head"..you can put them together to make a working machine.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes..But..probably better to explain why ;-)
So..
The usual type of feed on domestic machines ( and on industrial machines that are designed to sew textiles ) is "Feed from the bottom"..or "bottom feed" or "drop feed" or "simple feed"..( needle bar and foot bar ..two bars )<= You might see them described using any of those phrases..or the equivalents in your local language..What it means is that the thing you are sewing is moved towards the back of the machine ( away from the operator ) and towards the needle by a plate ( which has teeth ) which rises from under the bed of the machine and and pulls the textile away from you towards the needle...This is OK for textiles..as long as the "sandwiches of the layers" are not too thick in total..or are not slippery.
On slippery materials..or when dealing with "sandwiches" of multiple layers of material..the upper and lower layers may not move in "co-ordination"..and so you'll get "dropped stitches" and a crappy finish..So..no good for leather.

Next type of feed is "Upper and lower feed"( needle bar and afoot bar ..two bars )..I have an industrial machine which does this ..Juki DLU 490 4 ..
It can stitch leather, but the upper and lower layers of the "sandwich" can still slip in relation to each other..and..most importantly..it has teeth on the bottom feed dogs and on the top ones..so it can mark veg tan leather badly on both the top and the bottom..but it is OK for plastics and chrome tan..and for veg tan where any marks on the surface are not important.

Then there is "needle feed"..this is where the needle pierces the textile ( or leather ) "sandwich" and ( at the same time as the lower feed dogs move the "sandwich" backwards..so does the needle ) ..very good for sewing layers of anything which would try to slide over each other as they are held in unison by the needle spearing through all the layers whilst the stitch is made..But..on leather (especially veg tan )..not so good..because the leather is more dense than textile and so has tendency to "stick" to the needle as it rises and so "interrupts" the formation of the stitches..( this type only has a needle bar and a foot bar..two bars )..But..if you have a roller where the top "foot" would normally be ..
( the top machine in your set of photos has a roller )..then the leather is held down by the roller as it is being stitched..and the roller usually doesn't leave a strong mark on the leather surface..( some roller machines do not have needle feed, some do .."with needle feed" is better )..Shoe makers use these "roller" machines a lot because they allow you to make curved lines of stitches very easily..

Then there is "compound feed"..This is where the bottom feed dogs raise and grip the leather from below, the needle pierces the "sandwich", the two top feet"alternate" in pressing the leather downwards ..this means that the sandwich has no chance to slip out of alignment at all..and the alternating feet used for leather work are usually smooth on their bases so that they do not mark the leather..This is ideal..

Now.."clearance"..How much you can lift the foot is only an approximate guide..Because when you lift the foot , at the very highest point of the lift, there is usually a mechanism that releases the thread tension..so..if you can lift 12mm, in reality you'll only have tension ( and be able to sew ) until around 10mm..example..I have a singer 211U166A..it has foot lift via a hand lever of about 12mm..it also has foot lift via a knee lifter of around 14mm to 16mm, but in reality the internal mechanism releases the thread tension at around 10mm..I can get 12mm under the foot, and if it can squash the layers don to 10 it will stitch fine..but if the layers are too dense to squash ..it will stitch badly, missing loads of stitches..it is only supposed to be able to stitch 9mm..so I'm happy at 10mm..even though I can get 14mm under the foot.

HTH

There are other combinations and varieties of "feed"..but these are the only ones that you need to be concerned with re "leather machines"..for now..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I got this right, this is a photo of a Juki machine with walking foot. The RED is the needle, the GREEN is the foot and the BLUE is the feed for the foot, am I right?

 

 

And if I got it right, it's the best thing if I could get a "compound feed" one, any other is quite innapropriate for me?

And when I'm looking for the machine, I should be checking for those 3 bars down? :D

And if I find the machine, with lifting a foot up to only 10mm, it will be more than enough for me (while sewing mostly just 2 layers of 2.5mm veg tan together)?

 

(Please forgive me for asking stupid and repeating questions here, but I'm having slightly difficulties understanding english in some phrases)

 

 

[Mocivnik]

23 hours ago, dikman said:

If you can only have one machine a cylinder arm is more versatile, but a flatbed should do what you want to do - except holsters, don't even think about doing holsters on any machine unless it is heavy duty. Most machines in the "medium weight" range should have a lift around 10 mm. You need to look for industrial walking foot machines, ignore anything else regardless if the seller says things like "industrial quality", "semi-industrial" etc.

Therefore, there's not a chance for doing holsters at any point. I won't be doing them much, but as much as I will, I will sew them by hand, I guess.

And for one machine (unfortunatelly, I have a 8h/day job and this is only a hobby for me. I'd like to have a full time store for leather products or even work by order, but I don't think this will ever happen), I think that the flatbed will do it for me for now. I know for the cylinder arm would come much much more in handy in case of holstery or bags, but I think (because I don't know much) that it cannot produce so straight stitches (in case I would like to sew a leather belt) on longer distance.

[dikman]

You've sort of got it right with your photo, basically there is the needle bar, an outer foot and an inner foot.

You can do belts on a cylinder arm. Some people make a small table to fit around the arm so it acts as a flatbed. There are photos on the site showing these (Uwe makes a really nice one). Either cylinder arm or flatbed will work for you, it's a matter of what you can find (and afford). For most of us this is only a hobby, although it can get expensive if the "machine collecting bug" bites!

[mikesc]

The juki you posted the photo of is one sort of walking foot ( similar to my 490-4 )..but better for what you want to do is the system here at this link
https://floridasewingmachines.com/walking-foot/singer-211g165-walking-foot-1-needle-2-thread-lockstitch.html
click on the small detail pictures..in particular the third picture from the left..that is the more common arrangement for walking foot machines that sew leather without marking it..
That machine won't sew holsters..but will sew 9 to 10 mm of veg tan..cylinder arm machines are even more versatile with that 3 bar arrangement.

Edited August 27, 2017 by mikesc

[Mocivnik]

3 hours ago, dikman said:

You've sort of got it right with your photo, basically there is the needle bar, an outer foot and an inner foot.

You can do belts on a cylinder arm. Some people make a small table to fit around the arm so it acts as a flatbed. There are photos on the site showing these (Uwe makes a really nice one). Either cylinder arm or flatbed will work for you, it's a matter of what you can find (and afford). For most of us this is only a hobby, although it can get expensive if the "machine collecting bug" bites!

Hmm. Why is then on any kinds the flatbed machine better than cylinder?

Yeah, it's already getting expensive for me, I've spend some money on tools and leather already, now I really want a machine..but I'm afraid, I wont get it really soon.

I'm not into machines to collect them, they present "a tool" for me, not something to collect. I have other things to stuff them in leather and collect (as it's a reason, I'm buying the machine :D )

[Mocivnik]

3 hours ago, mikesc said:

The juki you posted the photo of is one sort of walking foot ( similar to my 490-4 )..but better for what you want to do is the system here at this link
https://floridasewingmachines.com/walking-foot/singer-211g165-walking-foot-1-needle-2-thread-lockstitch.html
click on the small detail pictures..in particular the third picture from the left..that is the more common arrangement for walking foot machines that sew leather without marking it..
That machine won't sew holsters..but will sew 9 to 10 mm of veg tan..cylinder arm machines are even more versatile with that 3 bar arrangement.

Jup, got it right That's how I imagined the whole thing.

Well, i'd really be glad if I could ever get anything under 300$ (or 250€) that's working. Doesn't have to be new, doesn't have to be nice..just that i will be able to sew with it. Unfortunatelly, I live in a country, where's not much of an offer and I can only buy from other countries in EU, but then the shipping comes expensive...ah well, I'm not in that rush with the machine.

[dikman]

If you're making clothes, making/repairing rugs, sails, tarpaulins etc then a flatbed on a large table will make it much easier to handle the material. For what we do a cylinder arm has a bit more flexibility, but it's not essential.Many on here are happily using a flatbed for their work. My suggestion is to read as much on here as you can, looking at which machines members are using and what works for them. You will see that the same brands/models often tend to get mentioned. Make a list of what will suit you and then start looking to see what's available.Sometimes it can take a while until the right machine appears (unless you're very lucky, occasionally we've all had that happen ).