oil or water based dye?

[pete]

This may be a re-hash of past posts but when would someone use an oil dye over a water based dye. I've always used the Tandy or Fiebing's dyes but have never used the Pro Oil dye. Does it cover better..is it darker..does it run or bleed...???

Have I been using the wrong thing for my porfolios and belts??/

I'de love some feedback to make my work look better.

pea-aire'

[abn]

I'd like to know this, as well. I've always used the spirit dyes and wondered why oil dyes even exist...

[Art]

First of all, whatever you are doing and works is the right thing.

Second. I am not Fiebing so I don't know what they mean for sure. However, from a chemical standpoint, I would expect that everything in the oil dye should be non-polar by nature. Non-polar will mix with oil which is non-polar. Water is polar and will not mix well with oil or anything non-polar. Alcohols (spirits) are usefull little buggers that can be kind of both Polar toward the OH side and Non-Polar toward the CH side.

That said, I would guess the Oil Dyes should be capable of mixing with Oils and the other dyes maybe not. So if you have some neatsfoot you want dyed a little, use the Pro Oil Dye, heat the neatsfoot a little or mix with a little mineral oil or lanolin (sheep fat, Non-polar) to thin if necessary. Some have said to do the mix magic with Bickmore #4, but I haven't tried it.

I have no idea what Fiebing intended without the formulations, it may just be a marketing gimmick.

Dave Genadek worked for DYO, he may know more about this.

Art

This may be a re-hash of past posts but when would someone use an oil dye over a water based dye. I've always used the Tandy or Fiebing's dyes but have never used the Pro Oil dye. Does it cover better..is it darker..does it run or bleed...???

Have I been using the wrong thing for my porfolios and belts??/

I'de love some feedback to make my work look better.

pea-aire'

[pete]

I was the one who started the whole "Bick's" deal and I have it on good authority that it doesn't work well with the oil dyes.

I LOVE the results that I get from the reg. dye and Bick's but wanted to know about the oil dyes in particular. Would they be best for say a portfolio of Sheridan design with a black background ala; the chan Geer notepad or Caly B's beautiful piece?

Maybe Clay could tell us what he used for the background and why!

pea-aire'

[Johanna]

Alcohol dyes are cheaper to produce and are more "institution-friendly", in the institutions they are allowed in, than oil dyes. Oil dyes seem to penetrate the leather more deeply, but I have absolutely no scientific evidence of this, just personal observation. I suspect oil dye holds its color better over time, but have NO proof. The water base institutional dyes were developed for hospital and prison use where they have to take special precautions because people might drink them or set fires, and are virtually worthless to anyone in the free world, except maybe for a rowdy group of Boy Scouts. None of the dyes come out of clothing or carpets, and that I will testify to in court. Antique is useful for the "resist" effect. I wish I had a dollar for everytime someone complained that dye covered their carefully applied Neat Lac they intended to show up.

Johanna

[ClayB]

I was the one who started the whole "Bick's" deal and I have it on good authority that it doesn't work well with the oil dyes.

I LOVE the results that I get from the reg. dye and Bick's but wanted to know about the oil dyes in particular. Would they be best for say a portfolio of Sheridan design with a black background ala; the chan Geer notepad or Caly B's beautiful piece?

Maybe Clay could tell us what he used for the background and why!

pea-aire'

Which piece are you refering to Pete? If it was background, I usually use med brown fiebings spirit dye just because I have a couple quarts of it. It works ok. I use spirit dyes for background because they will flow into the small areas and stop at the cut lines if you know what you are doing. I think if you want to cover something solid with one color, the oil dye works better, less streaky, doesn't need as many coats. I was talking to Peter Main a couple years ago in Sheridan and he said to use the oil dyes, but I dont remember what his reason was. He did say you could dilute them with alcohol just like spirit dyes so that's what I use.

Verlane showed me a piece she had just finished in Sheridan and she colored it all with Liquitex acrylic. I asked her about the background and she said that was acrylic too. I asked her if it wouldnt be easier to use spirit dye in the background and she said it is, but she uses acrylic on everything because of the fading factor with spirit dyes. She says she uses a very tiny brush and almost has to push the paint into the tiny areas. That's why I use spirit dyes, they will flow into those areas and it's just a lot faster and easier.

Not sure if that helps or not.

Clay

[Satanicblood]

I was under the impression that oil dye and alcohol dye were the same thing - oil based pigment with alcohol used as the carrier fluid . I have read that water based dyes are appropriate if preserving the original softness of  veg tan was a priority to the maker. I could be wrong about all of this , and if I am I would like to know for my own benefit . Thanks - Mike 

Edited July 10 by Satanicblood

[Mablung]

8 minutes ago, Satanicblood said:

I was under the impression that oil dye and alcohol dye were the same thing - oil based pigment with alcohol used as the carrier fluid . I have read that water based dyes are appropriate if preserving the original softness of  veg tan was a priority to the maker. I could be wrong about all of this , and if I am I would like to know for my own benefit . Thanks - Mike 

There are some more recent threads than this 17-year-old necrothread that may be helpful. Speaking of necrotic things, why the handle “Satanicblood”? That is passing strange, at a minimum. 

[Northmount]

10 hours ago, Satanicblood said:

I was under the impression that oil dye and alcohol dye were the same thing - oil based pigment with alcohol used as the carrier fluid . I have read that water based dyes are appropriate if preserving the original softness of  veg tan was a priority to the maker. I could be wrong about all of this , and if I am I would like to know for my own benefit . Thanks - Mike 

There are more recent threads, plus looking up the MSDS for the dye.  You are right, oil based colorant in alcohol.  So it soaks into the leather better than pigments that lay on the surface.