Looking for all-natural veg-tan leather

[Harry Marinakis]

Who makes a quality all-natural veg-tan or oak-tan leather? I am looking for the most natural veg-tan leather that I can get.

Hermann Oak's website says that they use all-natural tanning products, but them they finish the leather with a wax.

Anyone else make natural veg-tan leather? Would like to find leather without the wax.

Looking for weights from 2 oz. through 10 oz.

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Harry Marinakis

[mikesc]

Define what you mean by "natural"..

Beeswax and a whole load of other animal and vegetable "waxes" are "natural"..

Or do you mean "unwaxed" ?

btw..I probably should define what I mean as "natural"..( has to be partially done so by defining what natural is not ) "natural is non synthetic"..natural is "occurring in nature"..

Edited November 7, 2017 by mikesc

[Harry Marinakis]

"Natural" = vegetable tanning process before the industrial revolution

Would prefer natural un-waxed

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Harry Marinakis

[Weaver Leather Supply]

I would think that leathers like english bridle, harness, etc could have a wax finish step.  But in my mind skirting and strap/tooling would have minimal if any wax finishing.  Seems to me that would hinder the ability to case the leather properly.  Maybe worth a call to chat with them about the specifics of what you are looking for.  

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I think H.O. natural carving and tooling is about as natural as you will find. There is no wax topcoat or finish, otherwise, as Weaver Leather above states, it would not absorb water for casing. Wickett and Craig is another choice.  As far as anyone tanning leather EXACTLY as it was done before the industrial revolution, that might be tough to find, but W & C and H.O. both still use vegetable extracts to tan their tooling leathers.

[Harry Marinakis]

Thanks

I'm making natural leather dyes from old manuscripts that are 700-1,000 years old. I've got about 30 colors dye colors so far.

I'm running into problems of unpredictable dyeing results - some dyes will instantly dye some "veg-tan" leathers, but the same dye won't dye other "veg-tan" leather at all.

I'm going to switch to all-natural leather, or at least to all-natural as I can to see if I get better results.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Harry Marinakis

[DGoutdoors]

I've called HO (Hermann Oak) three different times asking for a price list knowing that I need to buy 10 hides at a time. The first two times she never retUrned my call. (She) I don't have her name with me I'm out of town right now. The last time I called they stated they would mail the information that I requested . I never received it. I grew up in St.Louis and wanted to do business with them because of that.

[BenjaminEstberg]

Try tandy leather or the hide house out of california.

 

[YinTx]

J&FJ Baker & Co make leather at a site that has been a tannery since the Roman Times.  Not sure if they do an unfinished leather or not, or if the price is one you'd be willing to pay, but an option for you none the less.

YinTx

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

5 hours ago, DGoutdoors said:

I've called HO (Hermann Oak) three different times asking for a price list knowing that I need to buy 10 hides at a time. The first two times she never retUrned my call. (She) I don't have her name with me I'm out of town right now. The last time I called they stated they would mail the information that I requested . I never received it. I grew up in St.Louis and wanted to do business with them because of that.

You do know that their prices are listed right on their website?  I've never had issue with the service from them.

[Harry Marinakis]

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 5:26 PM, BenjaminEstberg said:

Try tandy leather....

 

I've been using Tandy leather for years. The quality of their leather is so poor that it is not usable for this particular need. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Harry Marinakis

[billybopp]

It's not uncommon even for modern dyes to "take" differently from one piece of tooling veg tan leather to another - even on the same hide at times from one part to another.   Most ancient dyes will not have the coloring power that modern ones do, so your results aren't all that surprising.  You may find that some will need to really soak the leather - possibly even by submersion for a period of time.   

HO or W&C tooling leather are probably as close as you'll find to fully natural veg tan leather unless you tan it yourself.  We know that they both use vegetable matter to tan - but not their exact formula - they're just not going to tell anybody exactly what they use.  

Bill

[Harry Marinakis]

44 minutes ago, billybopp said:

It's not uncommon even for modern dyes to "take" differently from one piece of tooling veg tan leather to another - even on the same hide at times from one part to another.   Most ancient dyes will not have the coloring power that modern ones do, so your results aren't all that surprising.  You may find that some will need to really soak the leather - possibly even by submersion for a period of time.   

HO or W&C tooling leather are probably as close as you'll find to fully natural veg tan leather unless you tan it yourself.  We know that they both use vegetable matter to tan - but not their exact formula - they're just not going to tell anybody exactly what they use.  

Bill

I agree, Bill

I have been experimenting with both topical dye application and soaking.

Natural dyes often require 5 to 15 applications, with drying between coats.

Soaking in dye for a few days is usually effective, but it requires a lot more dye, and you use up a lot more dye at a faster rate.

I ran into some problems with modern veg-tan tooling leathers refusing to take any natural dye at all, even with 3-day soaks.

Surprisingly, most of the ancient dye recipes from the middle ages specify topical application of the dye, not soaking! 

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Harry Marinakis

[Colt W Knight]

You say you have problems with "modern" veg tan leather. Does that mean you have some non modern veg tan to compare it with?

[Harry Marinakis]

I ordered a side of natural veg-tan tooling leather from Hermann Oak. At $11/square foot, it was almost $300 with shipping.

I'll run some natural dye experiments with this leather, versus cheaper veg-tan tooling leathers, and post the results here.

 

The experiment that prompted this search was dyeing with natural walnut extract. When dyeing one cheap veg-tan tooling leather with walnut, it instantly turned a beautiful, rich brown with one application of extract. Another veg-tan tooling leather didn't change color at all, even with a 24-hour soak.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Harry Marinakis

[Canberra]

I bought some beautiful leather from Macpherson leather, carves like a dream, can get it in all weights. It is Herman Oak A grade. It is veg tan, no wax on it. Tried Tandy’s better leather, it doesn’t even compare. So hard to cut and carve. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Canberra

[chrisash]

You cannot get more traditional than this company in England http://www.jfjbaker.co.uk/ 

[Fowlingpiece]

2 hours ago, chrisash said:

You cannot get more traditional than this company in England http://www.jfjbaker.co.uk/ 

Agree. True old time pit, bark tannage