Finishing A Veg Tan Belt

[gandgphi]

I dyed a veg tan belt last night using black EcoFlow dye from Tandy. I was told I should use leather balm with atom wax to finish it by the employee there (I’m new). I let the belt dry overnight and applied atom wax to a scrap piece I had dyed as well. The color is completely coming off. I even buffed the scrap piece before applying the finish. Am I doing something wrong or is it just a bad product I’m now stuck with?

[alpha2]

Black is some pretty stout stuff. And Eco-flo works as you would expect something labelled "eco" to work. Hint: you can't get any of the good stuff in California. Not allowed. Allowing 24 hours to dry, buffing until you're totally expended, might work. 

Next, Tandy is a great resource. If you don't have any other other resources. It is what it is. I personally frequent 3 separate Tandys on a regular basis. But I go in having done my due diligence on this forum. Spend some time on this forum on the dyes and finishes area. Fiebings is usually accepted to be superior to Tandy branded stuff. But, USMC black is not up to that quality, especially if you don't want it to rub off. The other blacks are better. (Seriously, I asked my USMC veteran brother "tell me about black", he said "black is black"). Experience is way better than a minimum wage clerk at Tandy. They have some great stuff there. They also have some worthless stuff that they are more than happy to send home with you. Different stores and different clerks vary considerably. There is some great info here...but you WILL have to make some mistakes on your own. It's just the way it is. As you get some experience, and make some mistakes, you'll pick up some great info, which you will be able to pass along to the next person. I'm here for both reasons...picking up hints and passing along what I've learned, the hard way. Finally, by all means avail yourself of YouTube. There are videos on there that will save you a fortune in wasted leather, materials, and time.

Ian Atkinson, Bruce Cheaney, Don Gonzales, Armitage Leather, (Nigel Armitage), and J.H. Leather are some of my favorites for youtube videos. You could spend a fortune on classes, (still not a bad way to go, providing you have the time/money), but this is absolutely free online, and you can stop, rewind, watch again and again).

One more thing...better tools equals better work. Better leather, equals better work. Better instruction equals better work. MORE PRACTICE, equals better work. By all means, buy some cheap nasty leather to practice with, then buy some good stuff, but only after trashing some cheap, nasty leather to practice with. Good leather/tools will NOT make up for lack of practice. 

Enjoy the journey!

Jeff

[battlemunky]

Damn Jeff ( @alpha2 ) , that is about as solid advice as it gets.

Edited November 26, 2017 by battlemunky

[bikermutt07]

Yep, ditch the Eco flow. Every thread I ever read here about Eco flow was concerning problems with Eco flow. I have never used the water based products and after all the reading here, I never will.

Get a bottle of fiebings black pro (oil) dye. I have read many times about people dying the leather a dark color first, then applying the black. I would let the black set a day or two. Then buff the heck out of it. Once you did that, apply a light coat of Aussie and buff again. 

[bikermutt07]

I just did my first belt this weekend. Walnut color and finished with Aussie. I was wearing it the second day. No bleeding. To buff it I used a piece of canvas and ran the strap through my hand several times.

[Sheilajeanne]

Ditto on Alpha's advice!

Fiebing's oil based dyes are my go-to dyes. Eco-flo sucks!

 

 

[TxLeather]

44 minutes ago, Sheilajeanne said:

 

Fiebing's oil based dyes are my go-to dyes. Eco-flo sucks!

 

 

This!

[YinTx]

Ok, so the OP has a bottle of ECO Flo dye he'd like to be able to use, presumably.  ECO flo dyes work differently than Fiebing's.  I have used both with success, and won't hammer on either, since I am fully aware that my capabilities are what tend to limit my results.   There are some who swear by the ECO Flo brand as much as those who swear by the Fiebing's.

All that being said, how did you apply the dye, gandgphi?  Perhaps we can see if it was applied incorrectly, or maybe using the atom wax is the wrong thing.  Certainly wouldn't have been the first seal coat that I would have thought of for Eco Flo.

YinTx

[OLDNSLOW]

it is sad that he is behind Cali's iron curtain, but if you know if someone outside the curtain could get you a bottle of good stuff and ship it to you, you could try it and find out what works best.  Depending of where your at in the state maybe a ride up to Vegas or Reno or even a trip over the cascades for just a fun weekend and pick up a bottle or 2 of what you think you might use.  But I would hate to think it would call for a jail sentence just for a bottle of good leather dye, I don't even think it would be up there with some good hooch and no tellen what kind of trouble that would bring  sheesh. 

[alpha2]

So, hootch and Fiebings Dye are mutually exclusive?

Edited November 28, 2017 by alpha2

[OLDNSLOW]

yup

[gandgphi]

16 hours ago, YinTx said:

Ok, so the OP has a bottle of ECO Flo dye he'd like to be able to use, presumably.  ECO flo dyes work differently than Fiebing's.  I have used both with success, and won't hammer on either, since I am fully aware that my capabilities are what tend to limit my results.   There are some who swear by the ECO Flo brand as much as those who swear by the Fiebing's.

All that being said, how did you apply the dye, gandgphi?  Perhaps we can see if it was applied incorrectly, or maybe using the atom wax is the wrong thing.  Certainly wouldn't have been the first seal coat that I would have thought of for Eco Flo.

YinTx

@YinTx the way I applied the dye was as such: I dampened the belt a bit with a wet sponge and then used a wool dauber to begin dyeing it black. I spread it in circular motions along the length of the belt probably 4 times until it looked even and let it dry about 36 hours. Once I had buffed it and no dye was pulling off I decided to make this finish since the leather balm with atom wax was removed the dye off a scrap piece I had dyed similarly. The beeswax concoction went on easy enough but even that was pulling dye off the leather, albeit at a much lesser rate than the atom wax. 

 

@alpha2 I definitely agree that I will make plenty of mistakes and learn on my own. I was mainly trying to see if I was doing something wrong or using a bad product because I don't want to keep spending money on dyes and finishes or whatever that people have negative experiences with. 

[byggyns]

Tandy's professional water stain is better than the regular Eco-Flo dye. I've used it in dark and light colors (not black yet) with the top coat designed for it.

https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/eco-flo-top-finish-gloss-8-5-oz-250ml

I also used resolene over the pro water stain, and it had some issues cracking after drying, but didn't have any color draw off.

 

I'm sorry I can't give you help specific to the eco-flo dye, but you should be able to get the Pro Water Stain even in Cali.

 

[YinTx]

Try this instead of using a dauber.   Use a cotton round (one of those little circle thingies, quilted, that you get at CVS, Walgreens, etc in the makeup section).  Apply the dye like a lotion, rubbing it in until it is absorbed into the leather.  If you want it darker, add some more.  You can rub in quite a bit of dye this way.  Then with a soft cloth, buff it while it is still wet, until it is dry.  Don't press down hard, just buff it lightly.  It will start to shine some.  Then, let it dry.  Here is a photo of an Iphone wallet I made a year ago using the Bordeaux Eco-Flo Waterstain.  The leather was a Tandy Alligator print... so not the best.  Also photos of the same wallet after 1 year of continuos daily abuse.  And trust me, day long daily abuse.  Like open/close fifty times a day - at least. Thrown about, dropped, tossed into the bag, wet, food spills, etc.  I don't recall putting any finish on top of it at all - if anything, I may have rubbed in some Aussie Conditioner just to give it a bit more shine.  I have not done anything else to it in the year it has been in use, either.  Never had any color rub off.  I think for all the negative spew Eco-Flo gets around here, it's held up purdy darn good.

Day 1

One year later

The Dye

 

YinTx

Edited November 28, 2017 by YinTx
wrong photo

[gandgphi]

@YinTx that looks great! This is going to be a really dumb question then but is a "finish" required? Or can I dye leather and leave it as is?

[YinTx]

gandgphi, that entirely depends on the type of dye you use and the use of the leather.  Veg tan leather that is going to be flexed like this phone case would generally require some nourishment, and the Eco flo dyes tend to prevent oils from absorbing into the leather, so I tend to put neatsfoot oil on before hand.  I think for this type of dye, you would not necessarily need a final finish.  For the solvent based Fiebeng's dyes, they dry the leather out, and you need to renew them with oil and/or other beeswax/wax/oil mixtures.  Sealing them is usually recommended as well - use Resolene, acrylic finisher, leather balm with atom wax, tan kote, bag kote, etc depending on whether you have tooled it, want a matte finish or shiny finish, etc.

YinTx

[ENC]

gandgphi: It looks like you are in CA and so you cant get the hobby size fiebings products. There are two was to get around this. 1 If you have a resale license you can order it in minimum quart sizes for professional use. They can not be put on the shelf for retail but tandy can/will custom order it for you with the right paperwork (your results may differ depending on the store manager, but I have done it.), or you can get it from Weaver or Springfield. 2 The other way is to use Angelus products. They are made in CA and don't fall under the VOC law. They are my preferred brand, and can be ordered on line.

As a side note, Angelus makes a product called luster cream. It seems to be a waxie finish and the colors have 10-20% pigment in them. I use the neutral to finish/slick the flesh side of belts among other things, rub it in well and it will even stop die from penetrating most of the time. I found this out when I got a bit on the edge and then couldn't get the edge to take die. Using the matching color to a died piece can make small scratches disappear because of the pigment in it.

Ray

[cjartist]

I have used plenty of EcoFlo dye and have never had a problem.  I think it must be the atom wax.  I've never used that.  After you dye, apply a coat of resolone or super (or satin) sheen and the dye should not come off.  I also use wool daubers with no problem.  I have mostly been using Fiebings dye for the past year or two because I got a ton of it for free.  But i do still use Eco when I want something different.  Never have I had the problems that others complain about.  i really do think it must be the atom wax.  It makes me wonder why they would ever recommend it as a finish.

[YinTx]

cjartist, thanks for piping up.  I was beginning to think I was the only to ever get EcoFlo dye to work on this forum!  I know others swear by the black EcoFlo dye because they can use it on the inside of belts without worrying about it rubbing off on clothes, like the USMC Black from Fiebeng's might do if you don't buff it so long your arm falls off...

YinTx

[battlemunky]

They recommended it because not all Tandy floor salesfolk are created equal. I ask them if they work with leather when they make a recommendation. They likely had no idea what works and what doesn't.

I went in for a new diamond awl and the dude immediately pushed me to the most expensive plastic Craftool haft they had in the store that didn't even do what I wanted.....so I asked the dude if he worked with leather and he said he didn't so I pretty much used him as a parts GPS from then on.

I have green and blue Eco Flo waterstain and it works but is nowhere close to as good, IMO, as Fiebings dye. I used SnoSeal on the pieces I've used it on. I'll try to get pics and post them even though the pic post thing doesn't like me on here....

[SouthernCross]

On 11/27/2017 at 7:50 PM, alpha2 said:

So, hootch and Fiebings Dye are mutually exclusive?

Fiebings is liable to stain your teeth if you drink it, though. 

[mikesc]

So will some hootch..or so I have heard.

[YinTx]

17 hours ago, battlemunky said:

I have green and blue Eco Flo waterstain and it works but is nowhere close to as good, IMO, as Fiebings dye. I used SnoSeal on the pieces I've used it on. I'll try to get pics and post them even though the pic post thing doesn't like me on here....

Please do post some photos.  I have a bottle of turquoise that I can't get to work for the life of me.  The other colors I have do fine, but I haven't tried blue or green.  Fiebeng's Royal Blue just comes out black, and not blue when you try to dilute it.  So I don't have a blue leather dye!

YinTx

[alpha2]

I wonder if you cut the royal blue with some white? Lighten it up a bit? Maybe 80/20?

[YinTx]

The Royal Blue is a Professional Oil dye - do they make a white Professional Oil dye to blend with it?  I see the white acrylic dye, which is a bit of a paint, but I was under the impression you couldn't/shouldn't blend the two...

YinTx