Cylinder Arm vs Flat bed

[Deryk]

Hello folks, I am starting to look seriously for a machine, hoping to have it by the end of January/beginning of February.  I am a Hobbyist,  I like making leather journal covers, but really want to make leather backpacks and messenger bags and old world style leather duffel bags/weekend away sized bags.  Mostly hand stitching I have been working with oil tanned leather in the 5 oz range but I read I should be using vegtan 7 oz or so...I guess both have their pluses.  I need to keep the budget under 2k.  A few models I have considered are the Cowboy CB3200, and Springfield leather has a Cobra 20 that sounds spec wise similar to the cb3200 but only goes up to 207 size thread.  I guess with the cb3200 and the flat bed attachment would give more options and more thread sizes for the future.  Any other suggestions?  I saw in a posting a person here made a leather and denim backpack on a cb4500 and she said she at a few times had almost half an inch of material under the presserfoot... so I don't want anything too small but can't justify a cb4500 right now lol...maybe once I start making some extra money lol.

[RockyAussie]

I would consider this machine to be a good in between  machine. Can do pretty heavy but fairly light as well and has a good narrowed cylinder edge that would allow

tighter gussets and such than the bigger machines. Needle not over long and thus less needle deflection problems as well. http://www.solar-leather.com/cowboy-cb341/

I don't see it mentioned much and I'm not sure why? The price looks bloody good to me as well....

Only goes to 138 thread it says though.

Edited January 1, 2018 by RockyAussie
Missed a point.

[dikman]

I just had a look at that Brian and yeah, looks nice, if I had that I could get rid of most of my machines . 1/2" under the foot is pretty good, and while it says max #138 thread I wonder if it could manage #207 in the top with a bit of tweaking? Anyhow, for what Deryk wants to make I reckon #138 should be fine. Unfortunately, if it was available here I reckon it's going to cost a lot more than that price, so I guess I'll be sticking with what I've got.

[Deryk]

Now, I guess I am not seeing it, but what is the difference between the CB341 and the CB3200?  The 341 is $300 more and won't use as heavy a thread as the 3200.

[Matt S]

3 minutes ago, Deryk said:

Now, I guess I am not seeing it, but what is the difference between the CB341 and the CB3200?  The 341 is $300 more and won't use as heavy a thread as the 3200.

The 341 uses a top-loading, vertical axis rotary hook M bobbin, whereas the 3200 is an end-loading 45K-style barrel bobbin on a horizontal-axis reciprocating hook. A top-loader is considered to be higher-quality, less likely to snag and easier to reload -- especially with a flat table attached. Also, I'm not sure but I suspect that an M-style bobbin holds more thread than a barrel bobbin so with the 341 you'd have to change the bobbins less frequently than with the 3200. Probably not something you'd have to worry about if sewing a few holsters and belts but all important considerations when making a batch of, say, duffle bags. Even without the ability to take size 207 thread I think this makes the 341 a much better prospect than the 3200 for items that involve a lot of finer stitching like wallets, bags and pouches.

[brmax]

It is a great oppurtunity here knowing or reading your projects. So it sure makes it better for others giving some experienced oppinions to help your decision. 

A couple of your projects seem to be leather and at present flat top machine capable. These sound to be a thickness less than 3/8” total and likely way less typically. These projects could use 138 thread and under it seems to me and be perfectly suitable. In your future and description on other projects like back packs in medium materials of textiles can be a good option as I see it. 

When the project message bag starts in conversation I think a bit bigger thread automatically. This doesnt have to be with material choices, but careful durability is sure part of the plan. To get back on track here I really only now see a cylinder arm need.

I see a bigger need in your projects, with the decisions in regards to thickness as the real or best start. These can only be yours as its your ideas of materials and what you have a best grip on that you want to market.

Good day

Floyd

[Wizcrafts]

According to the CB3200 product page, its class 441 bobbins are bigger than those used in the Singer 45k and its clones (13/16" x 1 1/8" outside ). They are the same as the bobbins in a CB4500 and Juki TSC-441. These 441 style bobbins (7/8" x 1" outside) hold significantly more thread of any given size than an M style bobbin (0.435" x 1.023" outside).

The needles used in the CB341 and Cobra 26 are system 135x16/17, which are the standard length walking foot needles. They are about 1 3/4 inches long. By contrast, the CB3200 needles are about 2 3/4 inches long. Sewing an actual 1/2 inch is stretching it for a traditional walking foot machine with system 135x16/17 needles. The height of the needle bar and timing have to be dead on the money to sew 1/2 inch and not have fatal contact between the bottom of the needle bar and top of the feet. A Cb3200 is loafing at that height and has a long enough needle that it won't hit the presser feet at the bottom of the needle bar travel, with 1/2 inch of leather under the feet.

The M bobbin machines are best limited to using #138 thread. You can get away with #207 thread if the clearances are tweaked to allow that thread to clear the shuttle, latch opener and throat plate shuttle securing notch.

[Deryk]

I spoke with Ryan Neele from Cowboy., the CB3200 would handle the heavier leathers, just not less then 2 layers of 3 oz... but that's what I have my sailrite lsz-1 for.. want to talk to Bob From Toledo Ind sewing today if he has any other machine suggestions... maybe get lucky and he has something used that would meet my needs

[Yetibelle]

I struggled with this question for a few years and went with the CB4500.  Just like you I have a Singer 111w155 that is similar to the Sailrite and it can cover the smaller weight leathers and canvas, but I wanted a machine that could do more.  I run 346 thread in it and it doesn't flinch on a single stitch it runs so smooth I wish I had 2 of them.  I feel if I had gone with the CB3200 with the shorter arm and less clearance I would have wished I got the CB4500.  Plus with @Uwe flat-bed table it converts into an exceptional flat bed machine and I see my Singer 7-31 gathering dust.  So I would recommend getting the base CB4500 with Uwe's custom flat-bed.  I know it seams like a lot more money, however these machines last 100 plus years so it is worth the money.

 

 

[Deryk]

nice setup!  how much did the Uwe's custom flat-bed cost?  And yeah I am torn about machines lol... Only can justify spending so much money at the hobbyist level...only plus is Toledo sewing told me the machines do hold their value if I decide to trade up at a later point.

[garypl]

1 hour ago, Yetibelle said:

I struggled with this question for a few years and went with the CB4500.  Just like you I have a Singer 111w155 that is similar to the Sailrite and it can cover the smaller weight leathers and canvas, but I wanted a machine that could do more.  I run 346 thread in it and it doesn't flinch on a single stitch it runs so smooth I wish I had 2 of them.  I feel if I had gone with the CB3200 with the shorter arm and less clearance I would have wished I got the CB4500.  Plus with @Uwe flat-bed table it converts into an exceptional flat bed machine and I see my Singer 7-31 gathering dust.  So I would recommend getting the base CB4500 with Uwe's custom flat-bed.  I know it seams like a lot more money, however these machines last 100 plus years so it is worth the money.

 

 

That's a nice looking table - how does it attach to the machine?  Do yu remove the standard plate from the cylinder and use what looks to be a built-in plate in the new table?

Gary

[Yetibelle]

Yes, it is very simple.  Here is the video.

 

 

[Brooks125]

On 1/2/2018 at 7:48 AM, Deryk said:

I spoke with Ryan Neele from Cowboy., the CB3200 would handle the heavier leathers, just not less then 2 layers of 3 oz... but that's what I have my sailrite lsz-1 for.. want to talk to Bob From Toledo Ind sewing today if he has any other machine suggestions... maybe get lucky and he has something used that would meet my needs

When I bought my 3200 in 2015, I talked to Cowboy Bob on the phone and asked if he had a USED leather sewing machine.  He immediately said "no".  I thought it was odd that he could, off the top of his head, say he didn't, when they stock thousands of machines.  He told me he gets 3-4 calls a week for just such a critter, and used machines often compare in price to new machines (which they do!).  He suggested and I went with a new machine.  He's great to deal with and threw in a couple pounds of thread as well.  He is a wealth of knowledge, which is probably why he's the guy to talk to if you are west of the MIssissippi.

[Deryk]

Bob wasn't in when I called the other day and I also asked the question about used... hell saving money is always a plus...especially as a hobbyist, not making any money yet off my work.  And the answer was no, and he said when they do they are gone in no time.  But I guess a plus if you ever need to sell it.

[bikermutt07]

Just for consideration, the retailers have confirmed that the cb341 will run the 207 with no issues.

I had asked Alexander (solar machines) in another thread and Cowboy Bob or Ryan Neel replied. Can't remember which.

[ktucci]

On 12/31/2017 at 10:17 PM, Deryk said:

Hello folks, I am starting to look seriously for a machine, hoping to have it by the end of January/beginning of February.  I am a Hobbyist,  I like making leather journal covers, but really want to make leather backpacks and messenger bags and old world style leather duffel bags/weekend away sized bags.  Mostly hand stitching I have been working with oil tanned leather in the 5 oz range but I read I should be using vegtan 7 oz or so...I guess both have their pluses.  I need to keep the budget under 2k.  A few models I have considered are the Cowboy CB3200, and Springfield leather has a Cobra 20 that sounds spec wise similar to the cb3200 but only goes up to 207 size thread.  I guess with the cb3200 and the flat bed attachment would give more options and more thread sizes for the future.  Any other suggestions?  I saw in a posting a person here made a leather and denim backpack on a cb4500 and she said she at a few times had almost half an inch of material under the presserfoot... so I don't want anything too small but can't justify a cb4500 right now lol...maybe once I start making some extra money lol.

Hi!  I going through the same query right now!  Did you decide on a machine & if so where did you purchase from?  

[Fire88]

I have a 3200 and love the machine and have sewn 24-26oz of saddle skirt with it. I’ve run 138 or 207 thread through it with no problems. Just did a sketchbook cover and sewed through approximately 22oz at points with 138 thread with no issues at all. 

The flatbed attachment would’ve been nice to have but it’s not available for the stand I have. So I’ll probably make one.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Fire88