Members lazyd Posted January 8, 2018 Members Report Posted January 8, 2018 My Sister-in Law bought this machine thinking it was something else. Can anyone on this site use this machine ? It seems complete and turns free. We never used it. It has been in dry storage for several years. Asking $175 Thanks
Contributing Member Ferg Posted January 8, 2018 Contributing Member Report Posted January 8, 2018 In comparison to todays Sergers I would think that might make a good Paper Weight. lol Sorry, I couldn't resist. Ferg
Members gnarls Posted January 9, 2018 Members Report Posted January 9, 2018 Where are you located in SD?
Members ke6cvh Posted January 9, 2018 Members Report Posted January 9, 2018 old sergers are just fine.....we have five Singer 1842u092-6 five thread extra heavy duty and wider version, one Brother ma4-b551 medium duty five thread, one Juki mo-3300 series four thread that is a jewel, one Merrow m-3dw-4 from 1963/64, one Union Special 39800cp five thread, one Union Special 39800ap four thread, three Union Special 39500rf's with one getting ready to be converted to a zipper foot with 39520 foot for that just arrived and some tweaking on the presser bar/needle plate etc, one Union Special 39200at from the 1920's so that is 14 industrial sergers and an old Singer 360 or 460 would be just fine around here as ALL of our sergers are jewels and work just fine all day long. IMHO just keep it and maybe you will find a project or two it can be used on. The 460 is not going to be as heavy duty as the Union Specials but it is an industrial so it will be ok. I read a blog where someone was complaining about Union Special 39500's and was a designer of clothes. Person could not figure out how to thread it and was complaining about having to use a threading tool. Basically, they were wanting a home serger (oh I forgot we have one of those also a Juki mo-654de if I remember the nomenclature but I never touch it...it is for the Mrs. as a simple and reliable go to machine that will eventually and surely bite the dust if used allot). I answered that blog...the 39500 is still made in USA and with an external oil cooler and pump it can do 9,000 rpm's! Just watch a youtube video of that machine in a factory setting and it can be appreciated. Our Merrow is loved and cherished here. They say the cams on the new ones will work for 30 years continuous usage. Once again I recommend keeping it around if you have space. We have had to work on some of our sergers before but it always has been minor. The Union Specials are designed to be rebuilt. Best regards, Mike
Members ke6cvh Posted January 9, 2018 Members Report Posted January 9, 2018 Hello group, I thought I'd seen a youtube video on this class machine and searched...here it is. Singer 460-13 in operation. Best regards, Mike
Members lazyd Posted January 9, 2018 Author Members Report Posted January 9, 2018 9 hours ago, gnarls said: Where are you located in SD? We are in Eastern SD. About 40 miles North of Sioux Falls if that helps.
Members lazyd Posted January 9, 2018 Author Members Report Posted January 9, 2018 4 hours ago, ke6cvh said: Hello group, I thought I'd seen a youtube video on this class machine and searched...here it is. Singer 460-13 in operation. Best regards, Mike Hey, Thanks for all of the info and the video ! That really helps. Maybe we should reconsider...??? But, we are limited for room and we don't have any manual on it to even show us how to thread it...
Members ke6cvh Posted January 10, 2018 Members Report Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Here is a free .pdf link for the maintenance of the machine and description of options/stitches. This one does not show threading but that will not be all that difficult to get figured out. I'll look for that next as there maybe some tricks (like there is on the Merrow). The sub-class 13 can be set up for a purl stitch by changing loopers and springs as well as different spi by changing eccentrics (this is common). The thing to know about sergers is that they are strong because the stitch can stretch. 4 thread is stronger than 3 thread. 3 thread is typically used when strength is not necessary but edge finishing is needed and also where curves might need to be done such as a zipper etc. Sergers (means it cuts and it overlocks kind of like the blues brother's movie where they sang Country and Western) become different when it comes to fine material. This machine is likely a 1/8 inch width which is just fine for denim IMHO but if you are trying to do a semi felled seam then you would likely prefer a wide 5 thread (so it can easily be folded over for top stitching). We use our 3 threads allot and have them set up with large cones of white thread. We use our 4 thread when it is straight and we need the strength but don't need the safety stitch (the 4th and 5th thread/second needle chain stitch on the 5 thread machines)This may change in the future but our other sergers are set up with either gold or grey thread (we will set one up for each color if we have multiple units which we do). One thing you must be very very careful of with a machine that has loopers is thread path. Light tension on the looper threads is the norm and if you have inconsistent feed path it will result in broken threads and agony constantly rethreading. We have our own stainless thread cone caps we engineered here for this purpose and they are great! Best regards, Mike http://parts.singerco.com/IPsvcManuals/460_CLASS.pdf Edited January 10, 2018 by ke6cvh
Members ke6cvh Posted January 10, 2018 Members Report Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Hello again, OK....I can't help myself when you mentioned a space issue. Here is a picture of a Union Special 39500rf (that is heavy duty with a high throw which is a good thing). It is likely bigger than your 460/13. Merrow makes a table they are quite proud of that is 24 inches wide and is pretty "plain Jane". This table is 19 inches wide, has foot pedal for presser and the servo motor, enclosed thread stand with our own engineered thread cone caps, easy access with zippers and snaps to the thread cones, curved opening with stainless chute into waste bin. Merrow has none of these features and is overpriced....eat your heart out Merrow! We made the butcher block from scrap 2x4 and made it end grain on the fold out section (I don't think Merrow's table has that either and a Merrow is much smaller footprint as a machine) and end grain on the thread stand. Everything on the table itself is stainless and the thread stand is angle iron. So, if you have 19 inches of space and want to keep your machine it can be done! Because this 3 thread is used for piece work we really don't need space to the left but other similar tables (with built in logos for other makes) do have space to the left. Those tables are huge as they are 24 inches wide. I have a Union Special table that is different design up on youtube but the table was not completed with chute and other items. Video does show the stainless drawer like this one (partially pulled out in picture and the shape is unique because of the size of table....drawer is longer on left for scissors and internal divider allows smaller items like thread scissors as it fits around machine when pushed all the way in) which when pulled out allows access to the loopers and threading. Some of our Union Special sergers are definitely 1970's vintage. Unsure about this one as it could be decades old but it really doesn't matter as it works awesome. American Made at it's best and still being mfg. today in USA. Best regards, Mike Edited January 10, 2018 by ke6cvh more info on drawer partially pulled out in pic
Members ke6cvh Posted January 10, 2018 Members Report Posted January 10, 2018 Check this video out....person took a simple sewing machine motor for a domestic machine and mounted the Singer 460 series to a portable plywood base that is picked up and set on a table when needed.....not bad and very simple and effective. Ebay has these universal motors super cheap...or you can just chop your table in your picture. We have done that also. To the left in the other pic posted is our Juki mo-3300 industrial 4 thread barely can be seen. We took a cheap Chinese (sorry Juki but you don't deserve the TLC our Union Specials get for tables) table and mod'd it to be 2ft wide. Best regards, Mike
Members ke6cvh Posted January 10, 2018 Members Report Posted January 10, 2018 OK, on the threading. Here is a video in Spanish that shows the threading. Really doesn't need to be in English as it is shot pretty good. I see the 460/13 in this video uses a curved needle. Our Merrow and our 39500's use curved needles. Our US39800, Juki, Brother, and Singer 1842's use straight needles. The advantage to a curved needle like yours is that the needle enters into the stitch triangle easier (it is much easier to adjust loopers if ever needed) and curved needles are more precise as well as likely faster but what I do know for certain is precision needle placement and ease in adjustment. The trade-off is that the needles are more expensive and have to be ordered off the net. I prefer curved needles most of the time. If you search youtube you will likely find more videos showing the threading. Best regards, Mike
Members ke6cvh Posted January 10, 2018 Members Report Posted January 10, 2018 forgot to ask...what is the serial number? It is pretty easy to cross date of mfg. with most Singers based on serial numbers using the ISMACS website. Not all industrials can be narrowed down really well but typically it can be found. For example, our 112w-139 and 112w-140 both are mfg. in the 40's but I can't nail down the exact year because "W" machines (industrials) are not as easily found all the time. Just curious but my S.W.A.G. is that this machine likely is around 1960. Would be fun to find out. Best regards, Mike
Members lazyd Posted January 12, 2018 Author Members Report Posted January 12, 2018 On 1/10/2018 at 9:10 AM, ke6cvh said: forgot to ask...what is the serial number? It is pretty easy to cross date of mfg. with most Singers based on serial numbers using the ISMACS website. Not all industrials can be narrowed down really well but typically it can be found. For example, our 112w-139 and 112w-140 both are mfg. in the 40's but I can't nail down the exact year because "W" machines (industrials) are not as easily found all the time. Just curious but my S.W.A.G. is that this machine likely is around 1960. Would be fun to find out. Best regards, Mike Where would we look for the serial number ?
Members ke6cvh Posted January 14, 2018 Members Report Posted January 14, 2018 it is likely going to be on the cast iron somewhere. It was common to have an oval shaped piece in the casting. You can then go to the ISMACS site for serial numbers and try to cross it to a date. The 460 is a later model preceded by machines like the 246 series. That is why I guessed it to be around 1960 time frame but that is only a S.W.A.G. It is certainly going to be a self oiler being it is capable of up to 6500rpm. I do not have personal experience on this machine but the basics are pretty fundamental. Anyone used to 3 thread machines would certainly be able to figure out fairly quick the threading. If you have to break the case open (unlikely) you would be able to easily make a new gasket for it and seal it again. If it is like a Merrow there will be a plunger pump on it. The Merrow m-3dw-4 I have here actually has two plunger pumps and a filter but I did not need to break the case. It was semi-frozen upon receipt. I moved it back and forth to free it up. I then filled it with kerosene (light lubricant) and ran a belt off the chuck of my Dewalt 10 amp drill for a while. THen drained and put Juki M oil in it (light machine oil). The manual called for light turbine oil but my experience is this is ok. The manual specifically stated to not use stainless white oil (mineral oil with possibly some inhibitors like the Shell Diala used in power transformers). On the other hand our Union Specials use mineral oil. In the end an older machine like this would likely never be run at 6500rpm anyways and taking it down a notch or two to 4-5k rpm should be just fine. I see loopers and knifes on eBay for this machine. I had an old guru teach me the trick to sharpening the upper knife. It is done in one direction only. We did this to our Merrow before we got new knifes for it. My wife was using our Merrow and our Brother the other night. She now only uses the domestic Juki for light work and not as often. I'm happy to see her using the industrial sergers more and more. They are true work horses of the garment industry. Looking I see there was a "K" on some models. The K is for machines made in Scotland. The W's were in USA. Best regards, Mike
Members lazyd Posted January 21, 2018 Author Members Report Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 9:28 AM, ke6cvh said: it is likely going to be on the cast iron somewhere. It was common to have an oval shaped piece in the casting. You can then go to the ISMACS site for serial numbers and try to cross it to a date. The 460 is a later model preceded by machines like the 246 series. That is why I guessed it to be around 1960 time frame but that is only a S.W.A.G. It is certainly going to be a self oiler being it is capable of up to 6500rpm. I do not have personal experience on this machine but the basics are pretty fundamental. Anyone used to 3 thread machines would certainly be able to figure out fairly quick the threading. If you have to break the case open (unlikely) you would be able to easily make a new gasket for it and seal it again. If it is like a Merrow there will be a plunger pump on it. The Merrow m-3dw-4 I have here actually has two plunger pumps and a filter but I did not need to break the case. It was semi-frozen upon receipt. I moved it back and forth to free it up. I then filled it with kerosene (light lubricant) and ran a belt off the chuck of my Dewalt 10 amp drill for a while. THen drained and put Juki M oil in it (light machine oil). The manual called for light turbine oil but my experience is this is ok. The manual specifically stated to not use stainless white oil (mineral oil with possibly some inhibitors like the Shell Diala used in power transformers). On the other hand our Union Specials use mineral oil. In the end an older machine like this would likely never be run at 6500rpm anyways and taking it down a notch or two to 4-5k rpm should be just fine. I see loopers and knifes on eBay for this machine. I had an old guru teach me the trick to sharpening the upper knife. It is done in one direction only. We did this to our Merrow before we got new knifes for it. My wife was using our Merrow and our Brother the other night. She now only uses the domestic Juki for light work and not as often. I'm happy to see her using the industrial sergers more and more. They are true work horses of the garment industry. Looking I see there was a "K" on some models. The K is for machines made in Scotland. The W's were in USA. Best regards, Mike Mike, My SIL found these two numbers, says that is all she could find...??? Not sure if they are serial #'s.
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