Bag terminology help?

[Dun]

I’m trying to figure out how to pattern this thing out. My wife saw it at H&M and liked the style. Even though it was cheaply made I should have gotten it to try and get a pattern out of it.

current problem is I have no idea if it has a name or what to call it’s features to find something like it in image searches.

 

that is a top view there at the bottom of the sketch. I simplified the sketch way down so it only looks like it has 3 pieces of leather but I’m sure it will need a very complex build. I also exaggerated the silhouette into pyramid to make it more clear and easily broken down in my head.

 

it has two zippered sections. These two pouches(?) are stitched together to form a cell phone pocket between the zippers.

 

Im thinking each "pouch" would be made like half a tote bag before being combined to the outer wall. I also need to figure out the best shoulder strap mounts. The original had handles but my wife only uses cross body.

 

any tips and suggestions would be welcome.

[mikesc]

variation of a clutch purse ?

[fredk]

A thought; dunno if this would work out

1 piece for the outside, 4 triangular gussets - right angle shape, 2 inner pieces, 2 zips

Sew each inner piece to two of the gussets, along the long straight back, sewn in by about 10 mm. Sew two gussets and panel to the outside part after sewing zips along top edge of inner panel and outside, this x 2.  Fold the outside sides up to meet, where the triangular gussets meet, overlap and sew together; thats what the 10mm excess was left for - this forms a 10 mm pocket, wide enough for most phones

A tab and loop with a D fitting can be sewn to that gusset joint. A strap using lobster clips could be used.

It will need careful measuring; the base of your triangles x 2 plus approx 10mm or what ever you want the centre to be

[Dun]

7 hours ago, fredk said:

A thought; dunno if this would work out

1 piece for the outside, 4 triangular gussets - right angle shape, 2 inner pieces, 2 zips

Sew each inner piece to two of the gussets, along the long straight back, sewn in by about 10 mm. Sew two gussets and panel to the outside part after sewing zips along top edge of inner panel and outside, this x 2.  Fold the outside sides up to meet, where the triangular gussets meet, overlap and sew together; thats what the 10mm excess was left for - this forms a 10 mm pocket, wide enough for most phones

A tab and loop with a D fitting can be sewn to that gusset joint. A strap using lobster clips could be used.

It will need careful measuring; the base of your triangles x 2 plus approx 10mm or what ever you want the centre to be

 

that seems simpler than than what I was thinking. Still not sure which part attaching the d rings would be good as far as the flow of steps or structurally 

i was leaning towards these edge bands(I have no idea what it’s called)?

7 hours ago, mikesc said:

variation of a clutch purse ?

Yeah something. Clutch just isn’t specific enough for the image search

[mikesc]

Need a signal.. like the batman one..for..RockyAussie

[terryHHI]

Love the design. You could attach one shoulder strap tab and d-Ring to the front and back, like the blue I added to your image.  

[Dun]

1 hour ago, terryHHI said:

Love the design. You could attach one shoulder strap tab and d-Ring to the front and back, like the blue I added to your image.  

That makes sense in its simplicity. As long as the bottom doesn't fold up from the weight of the stuff inside

[motocouture]

Could reinforce the bottom with thin plastic cutting board. Cheap, some flex, and a surprising amount of support. I used in base of my 40cm travel duffel. 

And for RockyAussie....

 

[mikesc]

Love it :)

[Dun]

16 hours ago, motocouture said:

Could reinforce the bottom with thin plastic cutting board. Cheap, some flex, and a surprising amount of support. I used in base of my 40cm travel duffel. 

And for RockyAussie....

 

I'll have to see what I can find that isn't too heavy. I'm already worried about how heavy this will already be

[gigi]

'Double pouch bag/purse' or 'Accordion double clutch purse' or 'Fold over double zip purse'

@RockyAussie     Briaaan!  

[fredk]

2 hours ago, Dun said:

I'll have to see what I can find that isn't too heavy. I'm already worried about how heavy this will already be

Go to a hobby shop which caters to R/C or plastic kit modellers. They usually keep sheets of plastic [aka plasticard]  Available in polystyrene or ABS etcetera. Thickness is usually measured in thou of an inch, eg 10 thou, 20 thou, 30 thou, 40 thou. 40 thou = 1mm approx.  Sheets are commonly A4 size and about $1 a sheet. It comes in white, black, clear and sometimes other colours. A sheet weighs just a few grams

30 thou [three-quarters of a mm]  should be thick enough. Use a contact adhesive to stick to bag leather, then cover it all with a pigskin lining

For mildly firm re-enforcing I just use compressed cardboard - the type which is used in the 'Do not bend' postal envelopes. Cardboard has been used like this for about 100 years. I've even used the thinner card from cereal boxes on small projects

[Dun]

2 hours ago, gigi said:

'Double pouch bag/purse' or 'Accordion double clutch purse' or 'Fold over double zip purse'

@RockyAussie     Briaaan!  

accordian! that's probably the word I was looking for!
 

 

1 hour ago, fredk said:

Go to a hobby shop which caters to R/C or plastic kit modellers. They usually keep sheets of plastic [aka plasticard]  Available in polystyrene or ABS etcetera. Thickness is usually measured in thou of an inch, eg 10 thou, 20 thou, 30 thou, 40 thou. 40 thou = 1mm approx.  Sheets are commonly A4 size and about $1 a sheet. It comes in white, black, clear and sometimes other colours. A sheet weighs just a few grams

30 thou [three-quarters of a mm]  should be thick enough. Use a contact adhesive to stick to bag leather, then cover it all with a pigskin lining

For mildly firm re-enforcing I just use compressed cardboard - the type which is used in the 'Do not bend' postal envelopes. Cardboard has been used like this for about 100 years. I've even used the thinner card from cereal boxes on small projects

Ill check it out Fredk. That stuff sounds good to also make some dummy cards for wallet making too.

[RockyAussie]

WTH I'm trying to sleep here and there's a  bat silhouette flashing and then it morphs into a kangaroo and now someone's yelling my name...........

I googled double zippered clutch purse and found a few similar looking things. See pic below. In Pinterest there is a heap to check out in this link..    https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/537969117979718870/

@Dun I am curious what material/leather you would like to make this out of. There are a ton of different ways to make something along this line but what tools/ machines do you have such as a small or large cylinder arm and skiver etc? Where I might go with a 1mm (2.5oz) chrome tan with stiffeners and padding you might like 2mm (5oz) firmish veg.  The lesser the machines available the simpler the construction is normally best. An actual picture of something close to what you want to make would help a lot and some idea of the size dimensions as well.

On 15/01/2018 at 7:14 PM, Dun said:

Even though it was cheaply made I should have gotten it to try and get a pattern out of it.

And this is always cheaper than starting from scratch. It gives you insights as you pull it apart as to what steps  should be done and normally you will find ways of doing it better and sometimes even easier.

I hope that helps for now ..... and can someone pleeeese get that kangaroo light off of my ceiling

Brian

[mikesc]

I hope that helps for now ..... and can someone pleeeese get that kangaroo light off of my ceiling

You should just tell it to "hop it".

[Dun]

27 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

WTH I'm trying to sleep here and there's a  bat silhouette flashing and then it morphs into a kangaroo and now someone's yelling my name...........

I googled double zippered clutch purse and found a few similar looking things. See pic below. In Pinterest there is a heap to check out in this link..    https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/537969117979718870/

@Dun I am curious what material/leather you would like to make this out of. There are a ton of different ways to make something along this line but what tools/ machines do you have such as a small or large cylinder arm and skiver etc? Where I might go with a 1mm (2.5oz) chrome tan with stiffeners and padding you might like 2mm (5oz) firmish veg.  The lesser the machines available the simpler the construction is normally best. An actual picture of something close to what you want to make would help a lot and some idea of the size dimensions as well.

And this is always cheaper than starting from scratch. It gives you insights as you pull it apart as to what steps  should be done and normally you will find ways of doing it better and sometimes even easier.

I hope that helps for now ..... and can someone pleeeese get that kangaroo light off of my ceiling

Brian

Haha thanks! I'll start going through that pinterest link in a bit. That pic you added at the bottom is very interesting. Not sure how that would open and function while hanging from a cross body strap.

-cylinder arm?

I'm thinking a soft pliable 3-4 oz for the inner pouches and thicker veg tan like you mentioned or maybe start experimenting with bridle?

Yeah all hand tools here, and not many of them yet.

[RockyAussie]

OK ...I'm  awake and coffeed up now

Dimensions...width height depth? I'm thinking maybe really simple construction by doing a little like your first drawing but with a total of 2 pieces of 3 oz for the linings. each side is a separate unit. 2 zips. One outer cover piece 3 to 4 oz. 2 little tab shapes that connect at the top over the gusset ends in the middle join to hold the Ds. The tabs/folds of the gussets face outward instead of inward but are part of each side pocket in the one cut. The stitching on the gusset ends get done along with the outer cover when it is attached. The little holders for the Ds attach with one rivet to the ends lastly.

How are you at doing edge finishing? The first picture below shows a raw edge that is sanded in and the colour edged and the second picture shows a similar to what I mean by an outer cover going on last but note the outer edges are folded over a stiffener. This method does not need as much edging skills but would normally need some good skiving skills. The next picture shows gussets done similar to the one in your drawing style and they are fairly difficult to design and get right and would recommend against that method unless you have some skill with it already.  If you'd like to give me some dims I will post a sketch asap.

[Sheilajeanne]

LMAO at this thread, and the comments! 

We REALLY need a 'like' button for posts!

Greetings from frigid Canada, Rocky Aussie, though I hear parts of Oz are having a really cool summer.

Tandy sells a bag stiffener in sheets: https://www.tandyleather.ca/en/product/bag-stiffener?ip_lookup_country_id=CA&loadedFromCookie=1&session_id_token=154aa076e69dcb57e061d096e623b6ec29e3ade3

There's even a video out there, showing how to insert it (NOT done by Tandy)  Oh, heck, here's the whole page of Google links when I did a search for 'bag stiffener! Ya never know which ones might be useful! Be aware there are different kinds and weights:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=tandy+bag+stiffener&rlz=1C1GGGE_enCA377&oq=Tandy+bag+stiffen&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0.4647j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edited January 17, 2018 by Sheilajeanne

[Dun]

5 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

OK ...I'm  awake and coffeed up now

Dimensions...width height depth? I'm thinking maybe really simple construction by doing a little like your first drawing but with a total of 2 pieces of 3 oz for the linings. each side is a separate unit. 2 zips. One outer cover piece 3 to 4 oz. 2 little tab shapes that connect at the top over the gusset ends in the middle join to hold the Ds. The tabs/folds of the gussets face outward instead of inward but are part of each side pocket in the one cut. The stitching on the gusset ends get done along with the outer cover when it is attached. The little holders for the Ds attach with one rivet to the ends lastly.

How are you at doing edge finishing? The first picture below shows a raw edge that is sanded in and the colour edged and the second picture shows a similar to what I mean by an outer cover going on last but note the outer edges are folded over a stiffener. This method does not need as much edging skills but would normally need some good skiving skills. The next picture shows gussets done similar to the one in your drawing style and they are fairly difficult to design and get right and would recommend against that method unless you have some skill with it already.  If you'd like to give me some dims I will post a sketch asap.

Hmmm

 

lets go with height 9 inches

length 10 inches

width total 4 inches (two pouches at 2 inches each)

 

hopefully not not too big to bump into everything but could still fit a small book 

 

1st pic-outer edges I’m familiar with for veg tan. (I have a bottle of Tandy edge flex but have never got an edge I like out of it)

2nd pic-covered accordion is something I do want to learn, I think I’ll need it eventually. I have done a little super skiving on veg tan.

3rd pic- ! What are those called? I have seen those and want to learn but have never tried.

 

thanks rocky, you have been all kinds of help.

SJ, thanks but I don’t think I have any leather thin enough yet that needs stiffener. Unless you mean for the floor of the bag? Tandy’s is a paper product right? Wouldn’t that get too crumpled over time for a bottom plate?

[RockyAussie]

16 hours ago, Dun said:

lets go with height 9 inches

length 10 inches

width total 4 inches (two pouches at 2 inches each)

Just before I go any further I've done a rough sketch of the sizes you've given and this is a fair bit different than your earlier sketches proportionally. If you are OK with this I will carry on. Brian

[Sheilajeanne]

23 hours ago, Dun said:

SJ, thanks but I don’t think I have any leather thin enough yet that needs stiffener. Unless you mean for the floor of the bag? Tandy’s is a paper product right? Wouldn’t that get too crumpled over time for a bottom plate?

Dun, I've never actually used the stuff, so can't answer that question. Going to make a trip to Tandy soon, so I may look into it while I'm there!

[Dun]

8 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Just before I go any further I've done a rough sketch of the sizes you've given and this is a fair bit different than your earlier sketches proportionally. If you are OK with this I will carry on. Brian

Yeah that looks good. I exaggerated the design in the original too much

[RockyAussie]

On 17/01/2018 at 9:15 AM, Dun said:

Yeah all hand tools here, and not many of them yet.

Well....here it is. A bag with no skiving and no stitching and about as simple to make for a beginner as I could design. I apologise for taking this long to get back to this but I have had trouble with a neighbours bull destroying fences to get at my cows. This has led to me having to do a lot of new fencing (about 2miles or more) to give more separation.

After checking your profile I came to the conclusion that you would need a very easy project to start with and came up with the following design. It is a fair bit of a variation from your original but is the same size and can hold a phone in the middle etc. If you would like to to try it I will make a rough up version to iron out any faults that it may have. (There normally are some). You will note that I have not done this pattern with zips as they are a pain to stitch in by hand until you have a lot of practice doing them and zips generally restrict the opening room a lot as well. A picture below should show better what I mean. The pattern can be altered to put in zips as I have done in the double flap bag pictured below if you really want it that way. The pdf file may show the picture better than the jpeg. double clutch bag.pdf

Note in this first picture at top left there is a piece  that shows a red line around it.This piece is to glue on to the flap and give weight for the flap to hang well and also hide the magnets if you were to decide on using them. The magnets don't show on the outer front. The straps rivet on at the bottom tabs and feed up through the gussets thereby holding all of it together. Fortunately @motocouture has been working on a purse that I think she is doing very well on and it shows the second cutting around step that helps in getting a nice and true finish. The red line shows the first cut size. I pinched a pic of her work and is shown below for this purpose..

Picture showing access problem with zip.

Same bag showing how I got the zip to be extended and come down the side.

This pic shows the other side of the bag with a covering flap as well.

Another bag design I do with same sort zip surround but with out the flaps.

I noticed you asking if a simple soldering iron would help with the edge coat finishing process and for me the answer is yes. I have been using one with a light dimmer switch for about 20 + years now. (They fry themselves every 10 years or so) Way way before I ever heard of these fancy filotuse things though. Note in the background where Martin is ironing a belt you can see the dimmer switch set up.

Here is a pic showing a lighter weight piece I am ironing in.

It has now just stopped raining and guess what I gotta now do more of..........

Brian

 

 

[Dun]

Thanks brian! Good luck with the bull! No worries on time, I am so very thankful already. I appreciate everything you've done and are willing to do for others

Some more info if it helps

-my wife hates non zippered, so I will definitely have to start practicing before this purse.

-I really don't mind hand stitching, I'm just not very good at keeping the awl aligned for the rear of the stitches

-your bags look amazing!

-Did you see my critique thread? I need a lot of practice at a lot of things so I'll be trying some smaller projects to get better before I cut up large enough pieces for this purse

- this design has 2 straps?

-love the phone pocket. I hadn't even considered rivets for that part but it makes a lot of sense. 

-the design kind of reminds me of the convention bag I made to get artist signatures, before I learned how to stitch anything, so i designed it around existing light weight comic boxes

-I'll look out for a dimmer switch!

 

If you really do want to try a mock up that would be amazing!

 

Mike

[RockyAussie]

2 hours ago, Dun said:

-the design kind of reminds me of the convention bag I made to get artist signatures, before I learned how to stitch anything, so i designed it around existing light weight comic boxes

Wow that is so amazing and similar and functional as well.

2 hours ago, Dun said:

-Did you see my critique thread? I need a lot of practice at a lot of things so I'll be trying some smaller projects to get better before I cut up large enough pieces for this purse

I had not seen that post and am glad to see you are getting the stitching sorted out and some good lessons learnt as well.

2 hours ago, Dun said:

-your bags look amazing!

Thank you.... I've had a bit of practice.

2 hours ago, Dun said:

my wife hates non zippered, so I will definitely have to start practicing before this purse.

A divorce out of the question? . The attaching together of the 2 sides could be done with stitching instead of the rivets of course and could be done nicely with pockets sewn in as well if you can line them up on either side and get that awl to go straight. Getting gussets the right length as you now know is not all that easy with leather and with this design you don't have that worry. At any rate I will do up a zipper top version as well.

2 hours ago, Dun said:

- this design has 2 straps?

Now your starting to worry me....yes, but 1 strap could be dived into 2 if you prefer. The intricacies such as adjustment buckles and lid shapes and so on are all things that I would expect you to adjust and do to your own liking. I don't like the lid shape myself and would prefer a squarer style flap. The strap width in the drawing is 1" (25mm) wide. This allows for common bag buckles for adjustment if desired.

I will check back tomorrow. Brian