radrider Report post Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) Hi all. Ive been lurking on this site for several months. It is a goldmine in knowledge no doubt...so here goes post #1 Just today i happened upon an ad from a furniture manufacture pretty much tossing out their machinery. 30 adler 291's with efka motors/control. Although they are 3 phase and i havnt got much clue how difficult it will be to convert i thought i would pic 2 up and see what you guys would reccomend. At 180 canadian each it felt like a pretty good deal. They are seemingly in good condition however i only have the word of the seller that they where all running 2 years ago and have been collecting dust since. So. My question is. Does this look like something i should invest time and money to get working? If so what would you recommend for conversion, what are the draw backs. Could anyone chime in on this setup and what they think about it? Edited February 8, 2018 by radrider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radrider Report post Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) couple more pics. Does anyone know what the bulging chunk of metal in the middle of the motor is? I havnt been able to find any photos of a true twin machine online. Edited February 8, 2018 by radrider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrmCa Report post Posted February 8, 2018 Did you grab all 30? You should be able to re-sell them for at least 5x times what you paid. There are convertors on the market that can be used to feed 3x phase from 220 1x phase which can be had for a couple hundred bucks, and you'll still be ways ahead of going price of these machines. Do they have any of those machines left? I am on the market for a straight stitcher with a reverse... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radrider Report post Posted February 8, 2018 I did not buy the remaining machines, the number you can call if your interested in buying them is 647-459-0110, 5 hours ago there where still 30 remaining, mississuaga just beside the airport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrmCa Report post Posted February 8, 2018 Thanks a lot, mate, really appreciate it. I was going to fall for a $300 old Juki, but now I'll buy one of these! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radrider Report post Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DrmCa said: Thanks a lot, mate, really appreciate it. I was going to fall for a $300 old Juki, but now I'll buy one of these! Make sure to go over them and check that bobbin cases arent missing, they have the correct walking feet, etc . also some had considerably more play in the needle bar than others, some where missing the efka display The seller is very friendly and seems honest, hes selling them for his boss to make room in the factory. Edited February 8, 2018 by radrider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) Well, the Toronto area should be good for a while with fancy vintage Durkopp machines. You can start a local Durkopp 291 support group! Some of these fancy full function packages are all-or-nothing propositions. Either it works or it doesn't. There's often not a whole lot of middle ground. Buy two or three. Trying to convert the head to a plain manual setup may not yield satisfactory results. If everything works as it should, they're a joy to use. One downside to super cheap, fancy vintage machines is that everything else afterward will seem super expensive. A decent rotary 3-phase converter and a quiet air compressor will cost considerably more than the machine, but the whole setup may be well worth it. Edited February 9, 2018 by Uwe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bikermutt07 Report post Posted February 9, 2018 Am I missing something? Is there something requiring power in the head? If not, can't you just swap out the motor for a standard 110v servo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radrider Report post Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, bikermutt07 said: Am I missing something? Is there something requiring power in the head? If not, can't you just swap out the motor for a standard 110v servo? Swap to a 110v and lose all the auto features? My sewing shop seamed to think that was the better route to go, but I do very much prefer an automatic machine at this time, especially if it all works. (ive got an adler 167 and pfaff 545 and 1245 manual setups, but id like this to be an efficient workhorse) I may just be too noob but I couldn't locate a manual foot lift on the machine. The knee lift is air as well. Difficult to find much info on the 291, especially this variant with the big bulge on the bottom/middle of the machine arm, I havn't seen any photos of a machine with the same "bulge". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted February 9, 2018 I don't see a manual foot lift lever either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handstitched Report post Posted February 9, 2018 G'Day, Is this of any help ? https://www.manualslib.com/manual/461794/Duerkopp-Adler-291.html#manual I know nothing about these machines, but just wondering if the ' lump in the middle' has something to do with air operated foot lifter ?? I'm sure someone on here will help you, and hopefully it will be a good investment after all . Good luck HS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted February 9, 2018 It looks like you can run the machine on single phase 220V, according to the Durkopp 291 installation manual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radrider Report post Posted February 9, 2018 Thanks UWE! that is a great find! I will surely try this out.(may need to take a refresher of electricians for dummies though ;P) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bikermutt07 Report post Posted February 9, 2018 3 hours ago, radrider said: Swap to a 110v and lose all the auto features? My sewing shop seamed to think that was the better route to go, but I do very much prefer an automatic machine at this time, especially if it all works. (ive got an adler 167 and pfaff 545 and 1245 manual setups, but id like this to be an efficient workhorse) I may just be too noob but I couldn't locate a manual foot lift on the machine. The knee lift is air as well. Difficult to find much info on the 291, especially this variant with the big bulge on the bottom/middle of the machine arm, I havn't seen any photos of a machine with the same "bulge". See, I didn't know it had electrical internals in the head. But it looks like @Uwe found the easy button for ya. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrmCa Report post Posted February 9, 2018 Spoke with the Indian guy selling them - machines are not hooked up, "they do not have 220 here" (a red flag: how did they run in production then, if they are just cleaning up shop?) so I'll pass as he is not trustworthy. No 220 in an industrial building is absurd. There is 220 in every building in North America Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radrider Report post Posted February 9, 2018 43 minutes ago, DrmCa said: Spoke with the Indian guy selling them - machines are not hooked up, "they do not have 220 here" (a red flag: how did they run in production then, if they are just cleaning up shop?) so I'll pass as he is not trustworthy. No 220 in an industrial building is absurd. There is 220 in every building in North America trustworthy or not, i spoke with him a fair amount and it seemed like he didn't really know much about sewing machines(misspelled Pfaff and Durkopp in the ad, didnt know what any of the models where). The machines are not testable unless you fix the power cable which seems was "hard" connected before and has been cut. It is a HUGE factory and I walked through most of it to get to the machines. There where very few machines there and what I saw looked nearly brand new. He said they source nearly all of their fabric sewing in china and now do final assembly there. The factory is called Dynasty Furniture. For $180 it was well worth the risk I think, these original Durkopp feet alone are nearly worth that. Time will tell. I for one love a bit of a challenge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptnCaptain Report post Posted February 17, 2018 I also picked up one of these machines. As noted in another thread, having problems getting it to run on 220v single phase... But also have had issues with the pneumatic air lines....they're crumbling . I spliced some tubing onto the lines and added T pieces to bypass the Y pieces that fell off. Hope that will work! Confirmed what Radrider said, some of the machines are missing bobbin cases and labels : ( But, the manager in charge of selling them does not appear to be duplicitous in any way. He just doesn't know much about the machines. I assume that the person in charge of them has left the building.... Will post a pic of the missing labels in hopes that someone here has one that can be imaged and then copied. The manual is of no help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
R8R Report post Posted February 17, 2018 35 minutes ago, CaptnCaptain said: But also have had issues with the pneumatic air lines....they're crumbling . I spliced some tubing onto the lines and added T pieces to bypass the Y pieces that fell off. Hope that will work! Welcome to the world of industrial machine refurbishment and maintenance! Get cozy with this site: https://www.mcmaster.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptnCaptain Report post Posted February 17, 2018 Ha ha! Thanks! After several years of buying stuff from McMaster, they finally deemed me worthy of a physical catalog. I don't get one every year...but the stuff doesn't change that much, and website generally works very well, even speedy at times. Many years ago I was a purchasing manager for a boat building company. Usually didn't order much from them as the prices are not the best for frequently used items. But, occasionally we would use them. Once I ordered some weird tapping bit that the shop needed, then realized a minute or so later that I'd ordered the one on the next line down (of the catalogs very small print). Called them back to change the order. They said, "good thing you called back so soon, your part was just about to leave the building". The building is massive, with a fleet of UPS trucks lining up outside. As soon as one is full, the next pulls up. Although the warehouse was about an hour's drive from our company, if I placed an order by 9AM, we would get it with our REGULAR UPS delivery at around 11AM. So we had to pay a couple extra bucks for stuff over a specialty wholesaler...but the crew in the shop could keep working, and have the tools and equipment FAST! So, if I need one or two of something, or something quick, I use them. If one needs a big quantity, then best to search around, the savings do add up. Ah the joys of fixing what Durkopp Adler's service rep referred to as "an obsolete machine". Hey, obsolete to him... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mechanic Report post Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) I doubt the internal controls are actually 3phase. They probably grab one leg for 120v or two for 240v. Once you separate them from the motor, it should be fairly easy to use a VFD to run the motor. (Variable Frequency Drive) For about $250ish, you can get a drive that takes 240v single phase and spits out three phase. I use one on my vertical mill (very large burnisher :D) and it also gives me speed control. You may be able to just set it for 100% and not worry about the internal machine controls? There are possibly compatibility issues, I would talk to tech support before going this route. https://www.tecowestinghouse.com/products/Drives/fm50.html Edited February 17, 2018 by Mechanic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrmCa Report post Posted February 20, 2018 Automation Direct is a good source of pneumatic supplies like nylon hoses and unions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptnCaptain Report post Posted February 23, 2018 Great! Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handstitched Report post Posted February 27, 2018 G'Day, Radrider, I know nothing about these machines, but did you find out what that ' lump in the middle ' is ? Anything to do with the pneumatics ? Just curious, and learning . HS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 2:36 AM, CaptnCaptain said: Ha ha! Thanks! After several years of buying stuff from McMaster, they finally deemed me worthy of a physical catalog. I don't get one every year...but the stuff doesn't change that much, and website generally works very well, even speedy at times. Many years ago I was a purchasing manager for a boat building company. Usually didn't order much from them as the prices are not the best for frequently used items. But, occasionally we would use them. Once I ordered some weird tapping bit that the shop needed, then realized a minute or so later that I'd ordered the one on the next line down (of the catalogs very small print). Called them back to change the order. They said, "good thing you called back so soon, your part was just about to leave the building". The building is massive, with a fleet of UPS trucks lining up outside. As soon as one is full, the next pulls up. Although the warehouse was about an hour's drive from our company, if I placed an order by 9AM, we would get it with our REGULAR UPS delivery at around 11AM. So we had to pay a couple extra bucks for stuff over a specialty wholesaler...but the crew in the shop could keep working, and have the tools and equipment FAST! So, if I need one or two of something, or something quick, I use them. If one needs a big quantity, then best to search around, the savings do add up. Ah the joys of fixing what Durkopp Adler's service rep referred to as "an obsolete machine". Hey, obsolete to him... Dang - I buy a lot from McMaster-Carr, and I have yet to receive a catalog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radrider Report post Posted February 28, 2018 16 hours ago, Handstitched said: G'Day, Radrider, I know nothing about these machines, but did you find out what that ' lump in the middle ' is ? Anything to do with the pneumatics ? Just curious, and learning . HS Looks to me like it normally would have a large lever on it that would be used to do something, maybe raise the feet or raise the foot clearance while sewing? Mine doesnt have the lever unfortunately so it will be difficult to tell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
