Question on simple mass cutting

[Windrider30]

Have a business idea I am working on and i know if this takes off i will have to think about getting some machinery to help make things run a little smoother my question is what can make doung simple rectangles faster to mass cut out. I have found for 1 pint mason jar sleeves 3.5 inches wide by 11.75 inches long makes for the perfect tight fit (hand sewn baseball stitch style) so that will be the shape i will be cutting a lot of so what can i use to help cutting our blanks faster. Preferably something smallish as space is an issue

[bikermutt07]

If you're going big? Go with clicker dies and a clicker press.

Edited February 15, 2018 by bikermutt07

[Rockoboy]

You could get them laser cut. No waste if the shape of each blank matches with the next one. The only thing to consider is the scorching along the cut edge, but that could be easily sanded off before finishing the edge.

With the clicker die and press, you could cut out 3 or more at a time if the die was made correctly. No scorching, so less work sanding and finishing the edge.

[Windrider30]

Thanks looking into the price of a clicker press and Rockoboy I had thought of doing the whole laser cutting thing but as you said the scorching could be an issue and if I had to sand to much it would make it so the piece would not fit around the mason jar like I want them to sit down. So going to be looking into sizes and what not of clicker presses

[robs456]

Clicker press if you also have other stuff to use it for, but for only 3.5x11.75 inch rectangles a strap cutter and knife is quite low in both footprint and cost while possibly being quite fast as well.

 

[Windrider30]

4 hours ago, robs456 said:

Clicker press if you also have other stuff to use it for, but for only 3.5x11.75 inch rectangles a strap cutter and knife is quite low in both footprint and cost while possibly being quite fast as well.

 

I already use a knife and strap cutter I want something a little faster and something that has less chance of a slip up because with a strap cutter you can slip with one of those, not have the edge as straight as you thought or for any other reasons, blade is not as sharp and drags or pulls the wrong way...

[Sonydaze]

A clicker takes up the space of a pallet (they often live on them because of their weight) and often need 240 volt 3 phase power. Single phase can be stepped up with a phase converter or inverter.

Clicking is usually the fastest but with this application you will have a bit more waste leather vs, cutting into lengths.  One advantage is that you could have your clicker die made so it also punches the holes for sewing as it cuts your basic shape.

[robs456]

4 hours ago, Sonydaze said:

One advantage is that you could have your clicker die made so it also punches the holes for sewing as it cuts your basic shape.

This. Is excellent.

[Windrider30]

8 hours ago, Sonydaze said:

A clicker takes up the space of a pallet (they often live on them because of their weight) and often need 240 volt 3 phase power. Single phase can be stepped up with a phase converter or inverter.

Clicking is usually the fastest but with this application you will have a bit more waste leather vs, cutting into lengths.  One advantage is that you could have your clicker die made so it also punches the holes for sewing as it cuts your basic shape.

ohh I did not know that, and I have found a few clicker presses that are hydraulic and not electric. 

[Sonydaze]

8 hours ago, Windrider30 said:

ohh I did not know that, and I have found a few clicker presses that are hydraulic and not electric. 

They are often too slow for production. There are also pneumatic and manual presses but again, not that fast. Aside from the cycle rate of the clicker, being able to quickly place both your hide and die makes for considerable time savings. 

[Matt S]

17 minutes ago, Sonydaze said:

They are often too slow for production. There are also pneumatic and manual presses but again, not that fast. Aside from the cycle rate of the clicker, being able to quickly place both your hide and die makes for considerable time savings. 

Well that depends on what speed is acceptable for production. My humble 6 ton manual hydraulic needs three pumps to click a 2mm thick piece. That's under 10 seconds per piece, including the time to place the die, pump, release and eject. 6+ pieces per minute is plenty fast enough for a lot of small one-person businesses, as we have a lot of on this forum. It may not be as fast as a swing-arm Atom but at <£100 vs. £3000 (plus transport, space, electric and 3-phase) I think this approach has a lot to recommend it.

[Sonydaze]

5 minutes ago, Matt S said:

Well that depends on what speed is acceptable for production. My humble 6 ton manual hydraulic needs three pumps to click a 2mm thick piece. That's under 10 seconds per piece, including the time to place the die, pump, release and eject. 6+ pieces per minute is plenty fast enough for a lot of small one-person businesses, as we have a lot of on this forum. It may not be as fast as a swing-arm Atom but at <£100 vs. £3000 (plus transport, space, electric and 3-phase) I think this approach has a lot to recommend it.

We all have to do our own math on what is the best choice for individual businesses. 

The title on the thread is about mass production.  Although I understand 'mass' is a word that can have greatly varying connotative values.

[johnv474]

Could you use a shear, like bookbinders use for cutting stacks of paper?  You could set up a jig to hold the leather x distance from the blade, then cut through a stack of leather at once.  You'd need to do that for each of the sides, or just feed a stack of belt strips 3.75" wide through it.

Edited February 19, 2018 by johnv474

[Windrider30]

22 hours ago, johnv474 said:

Could you use a shear, like bookbinders use for cutting stacks of paper?  You could set up a jig to hold the leather x distance from the blade, then cut through a stack of leather at once.  You'd need to do that for each of the sides, or just feed a stack of belt strips 3.75" wide through it.

that may work as well due to space being a major issue may have to look into it

[Matt S]

@Windrider30, what quantity are we talking? 10? 100? 1000? How much scope is there for repeat orders, or other uses to which you can put the kit once you're done with this order?

[Windrider30]

On ‎21‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 10:24 PM, Matt S said:

@Windrider30, what quantity are we talking? 10? 100? 1000? How much scope is there for repeat orders, or other uses to which you can put the kit once you're done with this order?

Talking in the 50 to 100 range high repeatability and the 50 to 100 a week 

[Matt S]

13 hours ago, Windrider30 said:

Talking in the 50 to 100 range high repeatability and the 50 to 100 a week 

Cutting dies are certainly in order I think. Your choice of press depends on a few factors (investment cost, space available, access, power available, required speed). Essentially they boil-down to:

(1) Slightly modified garage/shop hydraulic press. These are popular options on this forum for the smaller businesses and hobbyists. A slow option but the lowest investment, and no power requirements are attractive. Most are O-frame designs which limits the size leather you can put in it. I can do at least 6 pieces per minute from my humble 6-ton press. For 100 pieces that shouldn't take you more than 20 minutes, though your mileage may vary.

(2) Dedicated swing-arm manual presses like the Lucris. These are toggle presses and apparently need a bit of elbow grease to make em go, but they have a swinging head which means you can use larger pieces of leather as they are. Not a cheap option, about £1300 last time I checked.

(3) Proper 3-phase swing-arm clicker press like Atom makes. Big, heavy, expensive (£3000ish) but fast. Can do a click in less time than it takes to place the dies. Usually need 3-phase electric. Used ones can be found online at lower prices. Usually need a pallet jack or small crane to move.

There are a few other options like the Tippmann 1500, all sorts of things. Another option could be to subcontract your clicking to another company once you have your dies made. They could also source the leather for you. We have a few Aussies on this forum who may be able to put you in contact with someone.

[Windrider30]

9 hours ago, Matt S said:

Cutting dies are certainly in order I think. Your choice of press depends on a few factors (investment cost, space available, access, power available, required speed). Essentially they boil-down to:

(1) Slightly modified garage/shop hydraulic press. These are popular options on this forum for the smaller businesses and hobbyists. A slow option but the lowest investment, and no power requirements are attractive. Most are O-frame designs which limits the size leather you can put in it. I can do at least 6 pieces per minute from my humble 6-ton press. For 100 pieces that shouldn't take you more than 20 minutes, though your mileage may vary.

(2) Dedicated swing-arm manual presses like the Lucris. These are toggle presses and apparently need a bit of elbow grease to make em go, but they have a swinging head which means you can use larger pieces of leather as they are. Not a cheap option, about £1300 last time I checked.

(3) Proper 3-phase swing-arm clicker press like Atom makes. Big, heavy, expensive (£3000ish) but fast. Can do a click in less time than it takes to place the dies. Usually need 3-phase electric. Used ones can be found online at lower prices. Usually need a pallet jack or small crane to move.

There are a few other options like the Tippmann 1500, all sorts of things. Another option could be to subcontract your clicking to another company once you have your dies made. They could also source the leather for you. We have a few Aussies on this forum who may be able to put you in contact with someone.

THanks Matt I am currenly looking at a hydraulic press as space is limited and I really do not want to put a 3 phase outet in the house lol

[bikermutt07]

I am liking the looks of Weaver's Heritage Press. $440.00 + $150.00 for 2 plates and a pad.

But, I don't know if Weaver has a presence in Oz.

[Rockoboy]

I have never heard of Weaver having a shopfront or warehouse in Australia, but I am in Western Australia. We have about 30% of what is available in the eastern states.

[bikermutt07]

Well, truth be told, they are probably too far away from me to be able to afford the shipping. And I'm in the States.

[chrisash]

Why not sub contract it out to someone who has a clicker, maybe a shoe factory or other leather or printing factory, that way you are not wasting your time doing repetitive work a monkey could do, and do what you do best

Must be someone over the other side who could do them and post to you

Edited March 30, 2018 by chrisash