Saddle Stitching - Looks Good on the Backside

[bikermutt07]

I was having the same problem for a long time. Then I watched Nigel's review of the Wuta irons. He stitches a lot of rows on this video without explaining in terms of right priority yada yada yada. I always found that terminology confusing.

What I discovered in that video was that I was basically causing my stitches to be backwards.

Let me explain. Earlier on I had watched Ian's video about casting a loop to make the back more slanted. Somewhere along the way I got confused with that technique. I was actually causing my front side of my stitch to the top of the hole after casting underneath it on the back. This caused a zig zag on the back and a straight line on the front.

After watching Nigel's review of the Wuta irons, here is what I do.

Pick the front. It doesn't matter which direction you are stitching. Make the front needle go to the bottom of the hole. Make the back needle go to the top of the hole. Simple. 

The front will zig zag and the back will be straight. But, as I see it, the back is the back. 

[Tugadude]

Not trying to be disagreeable, but on many items front and back are somewhat nebulous terms.  On a wallet, for example, is the outside the front?  Shouldn't inside and outside look as similar as possible?  Using the logic that the back is the back means one or the other is going to suffer.  So if you are wanting a slant, you should really try to make both front and back resemble a zig-zag.  One exception might be a belt because when worn you never see the inside.  So unless you are holding it, you'll never know.

 If one wants to get better at anything, it helps to be honest, reflect on the process both good and bad and continue to make adjustments that improve the results.  Sometimes you just have to accept "good enough", but that should only happen after effort is made to improve.  There is a law of diminishing returns.  You have to determine if it is worth the effort.  It is personal.

There are many who find the obsession over wavy stitching silly.  That is their right.  For some of us here it is a quest, a journey fraught with disappointment and blisters.  Lots of ways to bind leather together.  But when you see really good hand stitching you go "wow".   Wow is worth striving for.

[superpacker]

Such helpful and insightful comments. To clarify, I'm not using a groover, I did learn a while a go that that deep channel does force the stitching to lay straight (not always a bad thing, a channeled stitching is certianly helpful in some instances). I'm gonna try some of the suggestions regarding the "front" on the right side, and see how that works. The other thing I think could be causing this is the hold being too deep an wide on the "front" side, and smaller on the back, and the smaller hole forcing the stitch to "S", whereas the deeper holes allow more "elbow room" for the stitch to lay straight. Going to try and just mark the holes with a pricking iron, as opposed to punching them all the way with a chisel, then poke holes by hand with a awl - I think smaller tighter holes will make a difference. I'll makes some observations over the course of this week and possibly the next, and try and report back what I've learned. Thank you!

[charon]

I still have this issue all the time and also complained about it in my post about the Bifold wallet I made. I still have no good solution for this and even doing the cast doesn't fix the problem in a quality that is acceptable for me. However, what I learned is the following: you can influence what your "front" is by switching you're first hand needle. Let me try to make that a little more clear: 

I always punch my holes (for a wallet) with a 3mm Japanese Diamond Chisel (or whatever you may call them, giving 8.5 SPI), holes pointing down towards me, stitching towards me and I always use .6 Tiger thread for my wallets. Now when stitching my card pockets to the divider, I want the zig zag to be on the right side of my clamped piece. So I start with the left hand needle, right hand needle comes underneath, goes into the bottom of the hole and gets pulled tight with no knot. The result is that the right side gets the nice zig zag, the left side is basically a straight line of stitches. When I sew my divider to the back piece, I want the zig zag to be on the left side of my clamped piece, which is the outside of the wallet. So what I do is I start with my right hand needle going in, left needle comes underneath, gets into the bottom of the hole and gets pulled tight with no knot or cast. The result is a zig zag look on the left side and a straight line on the right side. Doing a cast does - at least in my cases where I stitch 4 layers of .3mm leather together always lead to one side being nice and the other one being sloppy and wonky.

If there are any suggestions on how to fix that I'll take them. In the meantime I live with one side being a straight line.  

Edit: When starting with the left hand needle I pull the left side up and the right side down when pulling the thread. You have to switch that also when starting with the right hand so the right hand goes up and the left hand pulls down.

Edited April 9, 2018 by charon
correction

[Tugadude]

One thing left out of the discussion is tension.  Good stitching requires consistent tension on the thread.  I've seen otherwise decent stitching ruined because some stitches were overly tight, some too loose.  

On firm leather you can really snug the thread up tight without issue.  On softer, more pliable leather, you have to be careful not to overdo it.

BTW, many don't pull up and down on their thread yet still get a great result.  Not saying either way is correct.  If it helps your stitching, carry on!

[bikermutt07]

15 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Not trying to be disagreeable, but on many items front and back are somewhat nebulous terms.  On a wallet, for example, is the outside the front?  Shouldn't inside and outside look as similar as possible?  Using the logic that the back is the back means one or the other is going to suffer.  So if you are wanting a slant, you should really try to make both front and back resemble a zig-zag.  One exception might be a belt because when worn you never see the inside.  So unless you are holding it, you'll never know.

 If one wants to get better at anything, it helps to be honest, reflect on the process both good and bad and continue to make adjustments that improve the results.  Sometimes you just have to accept "good enough", but that should only happen after effort is made to improve.  There is a law of diminishing returns.  You have to determine if it is worth the effort.  It is personal.

There are many who find the obsession over wavy stitching silly.  That is their right.  For some of us here it is a quest, a journey fraught with disappointment and blisters.  Lots of ways to bind leather together.  But when you see really good hand stitching you go "wow".   Wow is worth striving for.

I will take this to heart, Tuga. For now, (as in my current comfort\skill level) I will continue as I have been doing recently. It's not like I'm getting 200 a wallet and making my living. I'm just a hobbyist. When I feel really comfortable with my current process, I may try and expand. 

[Tugadude]

That's what it is all about, doing your best.  I'm a hobbyist too but love the craft enough to study it and reach for higher levels of skill.  I respect your passion too Mutt.

[charon]

Good point Tugadude, I'll try pulling straight next time. I change the way I stitch all the time since I only started a few months ago and just like you I always strive for improvement in everything I do. A day I learned or improved something is a good day.

[bikermutt07]

1 hour ago, charon said:

Good point Tugadude, I'll try pulling straight next time. I change the way I stitch all the time since I only started a few months ago and just like you I always strive for improvement in everything I do. A day I learned or improved something is a good day.

I usually pull straight and with a firm pull. Not too firm, but don't limp wrist it either. I found when working with pull up leathers I had to back off of my tension some. Otherwise the thread would just sink down into the holes.

On the tension topic, how hard do you guys pull against a stiff veg tan (for instance)? My tension level is maybe a tad more than I would pull my shoestrings. I guess that is how I would compare it....

[Outfitr]

I just posted this on a different thread... no pun intended:

I've watched Armitage youtubes and stitch exactly how he shows but alway get a very pronounced zig zag on the back and a less pronounced almost straight on the front.....and, I'm over it! I guess that' just the way it's going to be. It's neat I can live with it. I used to use a drill press but have switched to chisels to mark the front and an awl to poke through and it looks whole lot neater. I just don' get a real pronounced zig zag on the front.