Saddle Stitching - Looks Good on the Backside

[niakulah]

40 minutes ago, Outfitr said:

I just posted this on a different thread... no pun intended:

I've watched Armitage youtubes and stitch exactly how he shows but alway get a very pronounced zig zag on the back and a less pronounced almost straight on the front.....and, I'm over it! I guess that' just the way it's going to be. It's neat I can live with it. I used to use a drill press but have switched to chisels to mark the front and an awl to poke through and it looks whole lot neater. I just don' get a real pronounced zig zag on the front.

As you can see from my previous post, I can barely string together 2 coherent sentences.

Now if this bumbling idiot can do it after watching Nigel Armitage's Vimeo channel, you can too.

 

I hope I don't sound like I'm advertising his paid channel. I'm just a very happy customer.

[KingsCountyLeather]

On 9/4/2018 at 2:46 AM, bikermutt07 said:

I was having the same problem for a long time. Then I watched Nigel's review of the Wuta irons. He stitches a lot of rows on this video without explaining in terms of right priority yada yada yada. I always found that terminology confusing.

What I discovered in that video was that I was basically causing my stitches to be backwards.

Let me explain. Earlier on I had watched Ian's video about casting a loop to make the back more slanted. Somewhere along the way I got confused with that technique. I was actually causing my front side of my stitch to the top of the hole after casting underneath it on the back. This caused a zig zag on the back and a straight line on the front.

After watching Nigel's review of the Wuta irons, here is what I do.

Pick the front. It doesn't matter which direction you are stitching. Make the front needle go to the bottom of the hole. Make the back needle go to the top of the hole. Simple. 

The front will zig zag and the back will be straight. But, as I see it, the back is the back. 

Actually... I think you are right!  Ive tried and tried to get my stitches looking good on both sides. I mean hours and hours of pieces of leather all over the floor even confusing myself with which way did I do this piece and which way did I do that piece? In the end it is as simple as what you just said. But... different types of leather and different thickness of leather require you to tighten or loosen the pull on the thread. The back of the stitch will slant for you if you are consistent with the pull up at the back and down on the front.

Up until now anyway, the cast at the back doesn’t work for me. It causes the stitch to sit on top of the leather instead of pulling into the middle of the hole. But I will figure it out yet!

Have a look at this guys stitching? Amazing!

https://www.instagram.com/simaprague

 

[niakulah]

10 hours ago, niakulah said:

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by niakulah
deleted

[Dangerous Beans]

On 07/04/2018 at 9:52 PM, superpacker said:

I know the default recommendation on this forum is to consult Nigel's saddle stitch tutorial video. This is understandable as it's concise and easy to follow - I've used all of his suggestions, and get nice clean rows of stitching - my problem is that it is only the backside of the item that the signature "S" pattern will appear, whereas on the front,  just get essentially straight stitches. I would prefer those S's to be on the front side. I'm following his instructions to the "T" and can't figure out what is amiss. I will either use diamond chisels and punch all the way through or use the chisel as a pricking iron and then punch the holes with an awl. Either way doesn't seem to make a difference. Like I said, I'm getting nice stitching either way, but the back looks better than the front. Any ideas?

For reference, I'm frequently using .6 Tiger thread. the front piece of the item is on my left side, with stitch holes slanted towards me and im stitching towards me. 

Drop me an email,
Just to cover the obvious, you are putting the piece in the clam, face side to the left. are you left handed?
What irons are you using? and which hand is your priority? which needle first.
Also, are you stitching towards you.
Getting the back to look good is not that hard.
He has to do with the thickness of leather, the thread size and if there is enough space for the thread to even out.
I am not pushing you towards my vimeo channel, I am happy to help if you drop me an email but all of this is covered in detail on the channel.
There is a science to stitching as you are in essences trying to get two object to occupy the same space at the same time.
That is not possible and for many years the industry has ignored the back, that does not need to be so.
Understanding leather weight, thread size, stitching style, casting and double pricking will all help.
The short version, it is not simple and takes practice.

To add to BM's comment on tension, your tension should be sufficient so you see the thread sink to the level of the surface of the leather.
If you are using a static clam as you see me do in many of my videos, you are looking down on the edge of the item you are stitching, as you apply tension, you should see both threads sink in., as soon as it disappears from view, stop.

That is your tension, softer leather will require less, firmer leather, more, but if you aim for this, you will achieve the same results without creating loose stitches or deadmen and will not need to learn tension poundage for each type of leather.

I am on here infrequently, if it is going wrong for you or you simply do not get it, drop me an email. nigel@armitageleather.com I'm happy to help.

Nige

 

[bikermutt07]

3 hours ago, Dangerous Beans said:

Drop me an email,
Just to cover the obvious, you are putting the piece in the clam, face side to the left. are you left handed?
What irons are you using? and which hand is your priority? which needle first.
Also, are you stitching towards you.
Getting the back to look good is not that hard.
He has to do with the thickness of leather, the thread size and if there is enough space for the thread to even out.
I am not pushing you towards my vimeo channel, I am happy to help if you drop me an email but all of this is covered in detail on the channel.
There is a science to stitching as you are in essences trying to get two object to occupy the same space at the same time.
That is not possible and for many years the industry has ignored the back, that does not need to be so.
Understanding leather weight, thread size, stitching style, casting and double pricking will all help.
The short version, it is not simple and takes practice.

To add to BM's comment on tension, your tension should be sufficient so you see the thread sink to the level of the surface of the leather.
If you are using a static clam as you see me do in many of my videos, you are looking down on the edge of the item you are stitching, as you apply tension, you should see both threads sink in., as soon as it disappears from view, stop.

That is your tension, softer leather will require less, firmer leather, more, but if you aim for this, you will achieve the same results without creating loose stitches or deadmen and will not need to learn tension poundage for each type of leather.

I am on here infrequently, if it is going wrong for you or you simply do not get it, drop me an email. nigel@armitageleather.com I'm happy to help.

Nige

 

Thanks for the tip on tension. That will help in the future.

[Bolt Vanderhuge]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:59 AM, superpacker said:

Such helpful and insightful comments. To clarify, I'm not using a groover, I did learn a while a go that that deep channel does force the stitching to lay straight (not always a bad thing, a channeled stitching is certianly helpful in some instances). I'm gonna try some of the suggestions regarding the "front" on the right side, and see how that works. The other thing I think could be causing this is the hold being too deep an wide on the "front" side, and smaller on the back, and the smaller hole forcing the stitch to "S", whereas the deeper holes allow more "elbow room" for the stitch to lay straight. Going to try and just mark the holes with a pricking iron, as opposed to punching them all the way with a chisel, then poke holes by hand with a awl - I think smaller tighter holes will make a difference. I'll makes some observations over the course of this week and possibly the next, and try and report back what I've learned. Thank you!

I punch all the way thru. I do not use an awl. My holes are full thickness all the way thru. The size of your holes is only the problem if the smaller holes are the cause. I noticed it mentioned to pull straight. I personally pull the threads in the direction I want them to lay. If the thread is the lower thread I pull it down and the upper thread gets pulled up. I pull these at about a 45* angle to the work piece. I am thinking that your issue is the way you are laying your thread in relation to the angle of the holes.

 

This is a test holster I had made. This is the backside.

 

This is the front side of that same part of the holster.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Bolt Vanderhuge