What are these 2 machines called?

[Mocivnik]

First one is this:

 

It's used for separating leather layers. I have some hide, which I'd like to take off the inner layer, since it's quite bad to use in my projects.

PS: Does it exist the "big" as such to send through the 20-30cm wide sheet of leather? (~10 inches)

 

Second one:

I'd like to use this machine for cutting curves for leather projects I do (knife sheaths). I'd use it to cut ~3mm thick veg tan most of the time.

 

PS: What are normal prices for these 2 machines? I'm searching for used ones, NOT NEW.

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Mocivnik

[Aven]

The top picture is a manual splitting machine, or a splitter.  The largest manual machine I know of is 8". 

The other picture is a Landis 5 in 1.  It's used by shoemakers and cobblers to cut thick soling material, skive, narrow splits and press the welt.  If you are looking just to cut thick leather, you don't need the 5 in 1, a 3 in 1 would work for you.  It cuts, splits and I think skives.  Neither one of them does a feather skive.  They leave a thicker edge.

I have seen 5 in 1 used go for any where from $350 to $1250.  The condition was any where from use it for a parts donor to completely restored.  And a higher price doesn't mean that it's all there and in good working order either.  I'd been looking for a 5 in 1 for two years that I could afford when I happened to stumble across one.  I didn't pay nearly as much as I had expected to pay, considering its condition.

I've seen 3 in 1's go for anywhere from $200 to $700.  Be aware they are heavy and shipping is going to be expensive if you are shipping from the US.

If you just want to cut thick leather this might work for you.  It's just a cutter, but its a lot cheaper than a 3 in 1.

[Matt S]

@Mocivnik, the first tool is a lap-skiver or pull-skiver. Most current production ones are only as large as 6, 7 or 8 inches (15-20 cm). Pulling a strip of leather any wider that 4" (10cm) is very difficult though -- the extra width is so that you have longer to use the machine between resharpenings. I don't really consider these to be splitters. Though they can do some splitting the leather isn't very well controlled and the depth of the split even at one particular setting is dependent on the angle that you pull the leather through. They are primarily intended for tapering the ends of straps, either for splicing or for turnbacks when putting on a buckle or ring. Price for a current production Chinese 6" pull skiver is €150-200, or €450ish for an Osborne. Used Chinese ones aren't very common but I sold one last month and it didn't reach £100. Used Dixons, Osbornes and such reach at least the price of a new Chinese.

To put a 20cm wide piece through a fixed-blade splitter you'll need either a crank-splitter or a motorised one. These are fairly rare in Europe and tend to only be 7" (17cm) wide, intended for splitting shoe soles. Price is around €1000 for a hand-cranked one. The Cowboy 8020 can split up to 20" (50cm) wide but it's a big machine and the head alone cost $2000 last time I priced one.

Fixed-blade splitters are really any when taking at least 1mm off a stiff leather. Any finer thinning and an floppy leathers need a moving blade, like maybe a bell-knife skiver or a band-knife splitter. Band-knife splitters are in the €3000+ region second-hand. You'll need a forklift to move it and 3-phase power to run it.

The second machine, as @Aven rightly says, is known as a "3-in-1" or "5-in-1" machine in the US depending on how  many functions it has. I don't know if there is really a settled word in my country but in Europe and to an extent in the UK it's known as a ranger (for ranging shoe soles). I've seen prices from as little as £10 to the triple digits, depending on whether the seller knows what it is. I tried one once and didn't get on with it, it left a lot of marks on the leather and didn't leave a clean edge. Soling leather is very tough stuff, I completely understand why there's a machine for it. 3mm veg tan is no big trouble to cut with a knife.

[Mocivnik]

On 1. 5. 2018 at 4:38 AM, Aven said:

The top picture is a manual splitting machine, or a splitter.  The largest manual machine I know of is 8". 

The other picture is a Landis 5 in 1.  It's used by shoemakers and cobblers to cut thick soling material, skive, narrow splits and press the welt.  If you are looking just to cut thick leather, you don't need the 5 in 1, a 3 in 1 would work for you.  It cuts, splits and I think skives.  Neither one of them does a feather skive.  They leave a thicker edge.

I have seen 5 in 1 used go for any where from $350 to $1250.  The condition was any where from use it for a parts donor to completely restored.  And a higher price doesn't mean that it's all there and in good working order either.  I'd been looking for a 5 in 1 for two years that I could afford when I happened to stumble across one.  I didn't pay nearly as much as I had expected to pay, considering its condition.

I've seen 3 in 1's go for anywhere from $200 to $700.  Be aware they are heavy and shipping is going to be expensive if you are shipping from the US.

If you just want to cut thick leather this might work for you.  It's just a cutter, but its a lot cheaper than a 3 in 1.

Thank you, this really helps me understand more!

 

Yes, I actually just need something to cut 2.5-3.5mm thick leather, because I really dislike cutting with knives the large curves at knife sheats.

Beside that, i'd really like to have also a splitter. I'm getting my leather quite cheap, but it's not the best on back side (i get half for 100€).

I'd really like to get that 3 in 1, but they're all really expensive..I thought I could get some old (but still usefull for <200$).

But if I could get a cutter for under 100$, that'd be even waaaaaaay better.

[Mocivnik]

On 1. 5. 2018 at 11:50 AM, Matt S said:

@Mocivnik, the first tool is a lap-skiver or pull-skiver. Most current production ones are only as large as 6, 7 or 8 inches (15-20 cm). Pulling a strip of leather any wider that 4" (10cm) is very difficult though -- the extra width is so that you have longer to use the machine between resharpenings. I don't really consider these to be splitters. Though they can do some splitting the leather isn't very well controlled and the depth of the split even at one particular setting is dependent on the angle that you pull the leather through. They are primarily intended for tapering the ends of straps, either for splicing or for turnbacks when putting on a buckle or ring. Price for a current production Chinese 6" pull skiver is €150-200, or €450ish for an Osborne. Used Chinese ones aren't very common but I sold one last month and it didn't reach £100. Used Dixons, Osbornes and such reach at least the price of a new Chinese.

To put a 20cm wide piece through a fixed-blade splitter you'll need either a crank-splitter or a motorised one. These are fairly rare in Europe and tend to only be 7" (17cm) wide, intended for splitting shoe soles. Price is around €1000 for a hand-cranked one. The Cowboy 8020 can split up to 20" (50cm) wide but it's a big machine and the head alone cost $2000 last time I priced one.

Fixed-blade splitters are really any when taking at least 1mm off a stiff leather. Any finer thinning and an floppy leathers need a moving blade, like maybe a bell-knife skiver or a band-knife splitter. Band-knife splitters are in the €3000+ region second-hand. You'll need a forklift to move it and 3-phase power to run it.

The second machine, as @Aven rightly says, is known as a "3-in-1" or "5-in-1" machine in the US depending on how  many functions it has. I don't know if there is really a settled word in my country but in Europe and to an extent in the UK it's known as a ranger (for ranging shoe soles). I've seen prices from as little as £10 to the triple digits, depending on whether the seller knows what it is. I tried one once and didn't get on with it, it left a lot of marks on the leather and didn't leave a clean edge. Soling leather is very tough stuff, I completely understand why there's a machine for it. 3mm veg tan is no big trouble to cut with a knife.

Whoa! That first chapter blew my mind! I thought that any skiver shorter than 20cm (8") is just for belts and that there are waaaay wider...but OK, thanks!

3mm veg tan really isn't a problem to cut with knife, but I'm having difficulties at curves - axe and knife sheaths. Having difficulties at making beautiful curves and that's what's bothering me. I though I could do it better with 3 in 1.

 

[Matt S]

On 5/8/2018 at 2:57 PM, Mocivnik said:

3mm veg tan really isn't a problem to cut with knife, but I'm having difficulties at curves - axe and knife sheaths. Having difficulties at making beautiful curves and that's what's bothering me. I though I could do it better with 3 in 1.

 

What sort of knife are you using? I find that a Stanley knife is not much good for curves, but a properly sharp head knife works great. You don't need an expensive one, £15-20 gets you a basic one that works fine after sharpening. Alternatively for inside curves you can use hole punches. You can also get half-round or quarter-round punches in different radii for inside or outside curves.

[Mocivnik]

37 minutes ago, Matt S said:

What sort of knife are you using? I find that a Stanley knife is not much good for curves, but a properly sharp head knife works great. You don't need an expensive one, £15-20 gets you a basic one that works fine after sharpening. Alternatively for inside curves you can use hole punches. You can also get half-round or quarter-round punches in different radii for inside or outside curves.

An utility knife, very simmilar to the one on photo below.

I was searching for just what you've written, the head knfie, but I cannot find any below 30$ (which are from china).

I also have several punches for inside curves, but I often need curves such as 100mm radius or even more. I need a proper head knife, but I cannot find a proper one for reasonable price.

 

[Matt S]

15 minutes ago, Mocivnik said:

An utility knife, very simmilar to the one on photo below.

I was searching for just what you've written, the head knfie, but I cannot find any below 30$ (which are from china).

I also have several punches for inside curves, but I often need curves such as 100mm radius or even more. I need a proper head knife, but I cannot find a proper one for reasonable price.

Those utility knives are okay for straight cuts, but I find them very difficult for curves. The least expensive round head knife I have found is this one, a Barnsley sold by Abbey England, for £16+VAT: http://abbeyengland.com/Store/txtSearch/knife/ProductID/76762 I use one of these daily and, once sharpened, mine is excellent.

I have Chinese quarter-round punches up to 50mm radius. Any larger and I'd think you'd have to look at clicker dies.

[ray123]

i have a 3 and 1 for sale if your interested.one is a landis the other is a champion.

[Mocivnik]

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