Piping question

[Dunluce]

I have a question about using piping in a bag to join the gusset on to the front and back. I have never tried it before and I am wondering how you finish it at each end. Anything I have seen on the internet doesn’t address this. I would think it would look a bit bulky and untidy just to cut it off flush. Any info about how to use and finish piping would be much appreciated

 

[Tugadude]

Interesting question.  If bulk is an issue you can certainly skive the piping, the bag pieces or both.  Obviously you'd skive the piping on the inside.  It also depends upon the project I would think.  For instance are you using a rolled top edge?  

[Dunluce]

I don’t really know yet. Bags are new to me, I have only made one before, I want to design my own so what the bag will look like is a bit fluid at the minute and depends whether I can find out how certain things (like piping) are done. 

[RockyAussie]

4 hours ago, Dunluce said:

I have a question about using piping in a bag to join the gusset on to the front and back. I have never tried it before and I am wondering how you finish it at each end. Anything I have seen on the internet doesn’t address this. I would think it would look a bit bulky and untidy just to cut it off flush. Any info about how to use and finish piping would be much appreciated

 

If I understand this correctly.....What I do is start with the leather piping cover already skived and stuck in place and left in length over long. Start the stitching at least an inch from the end. When I have reached close to the other end I stop the stitch and take it away from the machine. I then cut the piping to the correct length and skive the end to match the meeting side and then finish my stitch on down. It is hard with some leathers to make it fully not be visible but picking the right place to start and finish helps.

[Dunluce]

13 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

If I understand this correctly.....What I do is start with the leather piping cover already skived and stuck in place and left in length over long. Start the stitching at least an inch from the end. When I have reached close to the other end I stop the stitch and take it away from the machine. I then cut the piping to the correct length and skive the end to match the meeting side and then finish my stitch on down. It is hard with some leathers to make it fully not be visible but picking the right place to start and finish helps.

Not sure I understand that fully. I don’t suppose you have a photo do you?

[Dunluce]

Here is a photo I found on the internet of the type of thing i am on about. Is there another way of terminating the piping that looks neater.

 

 

[fredk]

The only way I know is to skive the end of the piping until it is paper thin

[Tugadude]

Sometimes I think the final result you want to achieve involves a bit of compromise.  I will comment on the picture you posted after I share another pic with you.  I found this picture by googling "leather briefcase with piping".  It shows exactly what I wanted to convey in words.

So what I meant by compromise is that in order to pull this design off you will likely be limited to thinner leathers, much thinner than what is used on the bag you posted a picture of.  Even so, the maker likely skived the edges down to minimize any bulging that might occur when wrapping the leather over the edge.  I'm guessing that the result is similar to what you are after, a finished look to the termination of the piping at the opening of the bag.

 

Now, back to the picture you posted.  It looks like the piping, or welt was already skived down quite a bit.  Likely no more to be done there, but the leather on the bag itself is quite thick and does not appear to have been skived or thinned at all.  It basically represents a "raw" condition.

What might be done to make it look a little better is to edge bevel both sides of the "seam" and black and burnish the edge.  That process might lift it up to an acceptable result in your eyes.

We all have our own construct of the way things should be.  I know folks that don't like any raw edges and others that love them.  I know some will not make a wallet without turned edges because they can't stand the look of burnished edges.  To each his/her own when it comes to aesthetics.  Some projects cry out for a more refined look and therefore should have turned edges.  That doesn't mean there isn't a place for a rough-and-tumble messenger bag with raw, unfinished edges.  

Hope some of this helps!  Let us know what you come up with.

 

[Tugadude]

BTW, on the bag I posted, I wonder whether the leather at the very top could be "splayed" out similar to a French seam.  Seems like it would work since it is being covered by the rolled edge.  That way it would lie even flatter.  You would only have to do it on the last 1/2" or so.

[Dunluce]

Starting to get it now. I guess the only thing is to go and practise a few.

[Tugadude]

Yep, practice and try different things.  Hopefully you'll get that "eureka" moment and can rest easy.

[RockyAussie]

14 hours ago, Dunluce said:

Not sure I understand that fully. I don’t suppose you have a photo do you?

Sorry @Dunluce I misunderstood what you were trying to do. I thought you were trying to figger out how to get the piping to attach to the piping as I have done in this first picture of a back pack I made. As you see it goes all the way around on the front and gusset.

What would look best is how the piping finishes short and the leather is turned in, as in this next picture following.

Here you just tuck it in and keep stitching through to the end then trim it up inside.

[Dunluce]

RockyAussie, that bottom picture is what I was talking about. Just to check, have you saved the piping (as suggested above) or is it just tucked in, trimmed and the sides folded over it?

Just now, Dunluce said:

RockyAussie, that bottom picture is what I was talking about. Just to check, have you saved the piping (as suggested above) or is it just tucked in, trimmed and the sides folded over it?

I meant skived!

[RockyAussie]

6 hours ago, Dunluce said:

RockyAussie, that bottom picture is what I was talking about. Just to check, have you saved the piping (as suggested above) or is it just tucked in, trimmed and the sides folded over it?

I meant skived!

Sometimes you can get a piping effect by just using leather folded over which could be skived in from the edges to get a more pronounced bead look on the edge but I generally use either some 2mm round lace or 3mm plastic tube piping as in this following link - http://www.theshanngroup.com/product/hollow-plastic-piping/

When I want to turn it in as shown in the picture I cut the piping on an angle to taper it off and leave the leather longer to use that to be tucked in. Whether that leather extra part needs to be skived depends on the thickness of the leather of the bag and the thickness of the leather used to cover the piping. I normally have it split down to .5 to .6mm for most jobs but this depends also on the piping feet for the sewing machine and what thickness it works best on.

[Stetson912]

On 5/25/2018 at 7:21 AM, Tugadude said:

BTW, on the bag I posted, I wonder whether the leather at the very top could be "splayed" out similar to a French seam.  Seems like it would work since it is being covered by the rolled edge.  That way it would lie even flatter.  You would only have to do it on the last 1/2" or so.

This isn't a bad idea. 

I think how you will finish the edges will determine how to proceed. As tugadude said, if you are binding the edges you can probably leave the last 1/2" or so later open flat and skived thin for the binding to go over. 

Rocky here knows his stuff, his techniques are solid and will work also. 

If you are using thick leather and burnishing the edges, I wouldn't bother too much with skiving it down. Just edge and burnish. 

Just my thoughts. 

[ljk]

Coming from the world of upholstery when I need to pipe or welt

I use a welt foot of appropriate size.  For boot side seams and purse

piping I used lawn trimmer string. The hardware or big box store has

many sizes and it is stiff.  Plus you can melt the end and pull

an appropriate taper.  Lacking the right size foot a zipper or side

seam foot will work.

[Dunluce]

Okay so I tried a couple of samples on some scrap as in the photo below (may grandson says it looks like an elephant’s arse) and I am sort of getting it. I used a bit of folded over leather not the proper type with beading in the middle. My only concern is that you can see where the stitching is. Have I stitched too close to the edge? Would it be covered better if I used the piping with beading in the middle?

[RockyAussie]

2 hours ago, Dunluce said:

My only concern is that you can see where the stitching is. Have I stitched too close to the edge? Would it be covered better if I used the piping with beading in the middle?

Yes the stitching has come in too close. This can happen quite easily if using a foot set that does not have a shape to keep from coming in too close. It can be done but takes very careful attention and is more annoying when you get most done well but one bit climbs up. Looks worse. Beading/piping in the middle will help but the right shape foot is more the issue. I am assuming perhaps incorrectly that you are using a sewing machine. Doing it by hand would take a lot of skill I think.   

[Stetson912]

@Dunluce, are you machine stitching or hand stitching?

[Dunluce]

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I am hand stitching.

[Stetson912]

I think the issue with the stitches showing like that is the shape of your holes. You will see improvement if you can get round holes. Higher spi will help too (8-9 should be fine). You should be able to stitch just behind the "bead" and not have the stitches be visible unless you really stretch the leather out.

Ks blade makes round hole pricking irons in case you were going to search them out. I'm not aware of any others but they could be out there. Maybe you can use a sharp round needle or scratch awl to make your holes as well? I haven't experimented with this personally.

[Retswerb]

On 5/29/2018 at 12:15 PM, Dunluce said:

(may grandson says it looks like an elephant’s arse)

I have nothing constructive to add to this conversation, just wanted to say... he’s not wrong! 

[beaulama]

Hello, I make Birkin bags and I use the Rocky-Aussie method.

Here is a picture I found on the net wich shows how to do that : cut an a 90° angle and ply the piping inside the bag then make the seam hand stich or machine stitch.

 

 

 

[Smartee]

Okay - so, as a cake decorator - I was trying to figure out how/why you would "pipe" anything on a bag :D

[TwinOaks]

2 hours ago, Smartee said:

Okay - so, as a cake decorator - I was trying to figure out how/why you would "pipe" anything on a bag :D

It's done to make a seam a little more attractive/decorative, or to add a stiffener to keep a shape.  As mentioned above (one of the posts), piping can have a semi-rigid filler sandwiched inside.  The effect is that there's a hidden 'frame' holding the bag into the desired shape. 
The 'How?' is actually pretty simple - you can purchase commercially available piping, or....start with a strip of leather/textile and either simply fold, or fold around a filler, and glue it in place.  Most piping will have relief cuts on the flat portion to prevent buckling around curves and corners.  To install it, place it between layers with the right sides facing in, and sew.