Softening Herman Oak Skirting

[Silverd]

Hi

I purchased my first Herman OAK un-died Skirting Hide and am planning to start making a set of turnout halters for an equine rescue facility that lost tack in the firesults of So Ca last year.  I'm just getting into bridle making and will be donating my first run work to their facility that also trains under pribliged children in all things horses.

My question to the group: What should I treat the straps with to soften them?  I understand that skirting leather is tanned to facilitate being loaded with oil and wax which makes it resistant to weather and that some folks apply hot.  The fibers loosen but don't stretch if done correctly...that' what I want!

Thank you in advance for any information that might be provided going forward.

Silverd

[Silverd]

Hi

I purchased my first Herman OAK un-died Skirting Hide and am planning to start making a set of turnout halters for an equine rescue facility that lost tack in the fires of So Ca last year.  I'm just getting into bridle making and will be donating my first run work to their facility that also trains under pribliged children in all things horses.

My question to the group: What should I treat the straps with to soften them?  I understand that skirting leather is tanned to facilitate being loaded with oil and wax which makes it resistant to weather and that some folks apply oil or wax or both hot.  The fibers loosen but don't stretch if done correctly...that's what I want!  What exactly is the best type of oil wax combination to use?

Thank you in advance for any information that might be provided going forward.

Silverd

Edited June 17, 2018 by Silverd
Word spell

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I would have bought bridle or harness leather for this project, but since you have the skirting now, you can make it work.  Don't treat it before you work it up.  You'll need to wet it to make your folds, so do that and build your halters, and then when it dries, I would dip in neatsfoot oil.  After  a few days when the oil has migrated throughout the fibers, I would treat with more of a wax/tallow/grease type dressing. Turnout halters are highly abused pieces of equipment, and the more water resistant you can make them, the longer they will last.

[JLSleather]

2 hours ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

I would have bought bridle or harness leather for this project,

I'm glad to see BSS reply to this issue.  I was thinking the same thing, but chose to defer to superior knowledge 

 

[Silverd]

Thank you both.

 I understood at the time of purchase from Goligher Leather in Ventura Ca that buying Pre died and conditioned bridle leather would have been easier but choose my current path so as to gain additional first hand experience of the craft....which you will have helped me accomplish. I wanted to go through the process at least once.  The nuance of using a little water as a temporary softener really connected the dots for me.  I've done a bit of Veg Tan molding so this totally makes sense! 

Carlos at Goligher suggested using a crock pot to warm the oil so yesterday I brought in a thrift store buy and will test the complete process before applying to my finished straps.  I have another queston re machine sewing bridle nose strap.  My first attempt was a total fail!   I'll post specifics and photo later if interested.

Thank you so much again for the advise on the oiling process. 

Silverd 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

7 hours ago, Silverd said:

Thank you so much again for the advise on the oiling process. 

You're welcome. 

7 hours ago, Silverd said:

 I have another queston re machine sewing bridle nose strap.  My first attempt was a total fail!   I'll post specifics and photo later if interested.

Yes, please do, I am curious.

[Silverd]

I'l see if I can post a photo...very difficult this site...fussy!

Ok...  It stuck.

This belt loop is wrapped around a 5/8 wide bridle strap...so not very big.  Wow...what kind of machine do I need to buy so I can sew one.  Really impressive work these bridle people.  

 

I have another one for you.

The nose strap on many bridles have a cool hump section.  How is this sewn together.  I've made one by skiving strips of leather and got it to look very nice all glued up...sewing it was a disaster.  I think it calls for a custom presser foot that will accommodate the hump radii.  My 441 (Chinese) with 7/8" would just fit it.  But I couldn't roller guide it well enough or place the stitch line accurately to call it even close to good.  What do you think?  Over my head?  BTW.  Skirting Test straps are soaking in neadsfoot oil now.

Thanks in advance

Silverd

[Chain]

Ge-Wy Leather Dressing

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

7 hours ago, Silverd said:

I'l see if I can post a photo...very difficult this site...fussy!

Ok...  It stuck.

This belt loop is wrapped around a 5/8 wide bridle strap...so not very big.  Wow...what kind of machine do I need to buy so I can sew one.  Really impressive work these bridle people.  

 

I have another one for you.

The nose strap on many bridles have a cool hump section.  How is this sewn together.  I've made one by skiving strips of leather and got it to look very nice all glued up...sewing it was a disaster.  I think it calls for a custom presser foot that will accommodate the hump radii.  My 441 (Chinese) with 7/8" would just fit it.  But I couldn't roller guide it well enough or place the stitch line accurately to call it even close to good.  What do you think?  Over my head?  BTW.  Skirting Test straps are soaking in neadsfoot oil now.

Thanks in advance

Silverd

The running loops are handsewn BEFORE they are placed on the strap.  I've seen 3/8" and even 1/4" English bridle work, and let me tell you, it is tedious, fussy work.  I just finished one with 1/2" cheeks.  I avoid English work if at all possible. . . I get way more time in it than I can charge for in this part of the country.

The raised noseband can be sewn by machine, but a 441 is not ideal.  There are definitely special feet and throat plates for machines such as the Campbell/Randall for work of this type.  This kind of work is fairly advanced work, and a lot of what you are going to see for repairs will likely be cheap, Asian imports that didn't cost $50 when new.  That stuff you can't afford to work on.  Quality bridle work of this type runs into the many hundreds of $$, and it is not something learned and perfected quickly.

Incidentally, I have found the roller guide on the 441 to be next to worthless.  For it to actually work as a guide, you have to sew so far in from the edge, that on fine work, you're sewing down the middle of the strap.  Learn to sew without it.  I very rarely use a work guide on any of my machines. About the only time is when I'm sewing rounds, and that is more to keep the filler pushed tight into the round than anything.  Sometimes I'll set one for sewing harness tugs, but not always.

[Silverd]

Hummmm...not liking what I'm hearing, but I understand what you are saying.  I'd be better off making western tack, certainly to start with.  My first equine product effort I'm planning are the Turn Out haulters for the local Charity. They appear very makable with equipment and skill set I currently have.  I also ordered the book Bridlework, by Robert Steinke.  Any good do you know?  I'll reassess the English bridle work activity going forward as you recommend.

Silverd 

 

 

[fivewayswelshcobs]

Hi , 3/8" work is fiddly but worth it on fine ponies, it makes a massive difference to the appearance. Keepers are normally sewn with 3 stitches across, 2 rows in back stitch or single hand so really only takes very little time.

For a basic turnout headcollar/ halter I would keep it simple, if the nose is a single layer apart from the turn backs then if caught they will break especially if not too thick, cheaper to repair than a damaged horse.

Steinke's book is Ok For basics but there is alot of detail missing , good for sizing when starting.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

22 hours ago, Silverd said:

Hummmm...not liking what I'm hearing, but I understand what you are saying.  I'd be better off making western tack, certainly to start with.  My first equine product effort I'm planning are the Turn Out haulters for the local Charity. They appear very makable with equipment and skill set I currently have.  I also ordered the book Bridlework, by Robert Steinke.  Any good do you know?  I'll reassess the English bridle work activity going forward as you recommend.

Silverd 

 

 

If you are relatively new to leatherwork in general, and building tack specifically, then yes, you would definitely be less discouraged to start with western tack.  This is true especially if there is nobody in your area to apprentice under, or at least offer some help, and if you don't have access to high end equipment to study. The book by Steinke is ok; I have it and refer to it occasionally, especially for the size charts.  I have never seen a book that COMPLETEY covers a subject however.  It seems there is always some critical information lacking.  The turnout halters will be a good project to get your feet wet.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

12 minutes ago, fivewayswelshcobs said:

Keepers are normally sewn with 3 stitches across, 2 rows in back stitch or single hand so really only takes very little time.

It's not the running loops that I mind; as you said, they go rather quickly.  It's the buckle returns and hook studs with standing loops that take too much time for me.

[Silverd]

Bridle work:  Challenging Work and the Weekend Plan

A very exciting time.  This weekend I'm putting everything together; my new equipment,  new processes, what I've learned from reading and practice making, what this group has taught me and with the help of an awesome assistant and a bunch of luck I intend to make my first of five Halter sets.  This is my plan:

-I'm starting with a full hide of Herman Oak untreated Skirting with a straight edge cut on the belly side. 

-A Weaver hand crank slitter set up with the proper spacers and cutters;  Making prototype halters for a local Equine rescue center that lost tack in the CA fires last year + we'll cut a few extra sets of straps to cover my mistakes.

-A Weaver Easy Edger set up to bevel 10-12oz straps

-An American splitter with a freshly Tormek sharpened hollow ground and honed blade

-A Landis 5 in 1 with freshly hollow ground blade (for skiving buckle returns)

 -A Randal creaser for decorative grooving the straps

 -A Weaver bench mounted edge slicker and bar of saddle soap

-An oil warming Crock Pot

 -A Gallon of Saddle Oil and a tub of expensive leather wax

-An old E-bay purchased halter that will be my design target and hardware cannibal; a range of sizes will be attempted using measurements listed in the Bridlework: by Robert Steinke

-An experienced Seamstress & Equine Extraordinaire helper to keep me straight

-A Chinese 441 set-up and ready to roll with 138 thread (which I think is right).  

More to follow...Wish me luck!   

Silverd

Edited June 22, 2018 by Silverd
rewording for clarity

[Rockoboy]

1 hour ago, Silverd said:

Wish me luck!

Sounds like you have it all in place and raring to go.

With all the machines, tools and expert guidance, I am sure you will turn out some good tack.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I would not sew tack with 138 thread, WAY too light.  Working and using stuff normally gets 277 for bridles and halters, unless draft stuff, then maybe 346.  Finer stuff and show equipment might go down to 207, but never below that. 

Best of luck! 

 

[Silverd]

Quote

 

 

1 hour ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

I would not sew tack with 138 thread, WAY too light.  Working and using stuff normally gets 277 for bridles and halters, unless draft stuff, then maybe 346.  Finer stuff and show equipment might go down to 207, but never below that. 

Best of luck! 

 

Ok..   Great info.  I'll do just that.  Thank you! 

On another note since the topic or robust construction has surfaced.   Somewhere up away in this string someone suggested that a Turn-out Halter should be designed or constructed at least to pull apart if the horse gets it caught on something...Fence, barn door latch etc.  The sample I'm using is not like this that I can tell but I'm not sure if its a true Turn-out halter.   Are Turn-out halters made exclusively with a break  away feature and other halter types made stronger?

Silver

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

If you make the halter out of leather, it will break if a horse gets caught.  It is nearly impossible to make a leather halter strong enough to NOT break.  That's why single ply leather halters are often referred to as turnout halters.  A pretty, doubled and stitched leather halter will break also, but why go to all that work for a turnout halter?  Personally, when I make turnout halters, they are all single ply leather with riveted laps, like the old time draft farm halters. It's a good way to use short scrap that may not be from the best part of the hide.  Straps cut from necks and shoulders work just fine to turn out on a horse, whereas you wouldn't ant to use them for high-end stuff.  Occasionally I will have a client request a leather crown put on a nylon halter, so it can be used to turn out. BUT, I would check with the client first and find out just exactly what they are expecting.

The fact is, it's nearly impossible to make ANY halter unbreakable, unless it's a tied rope halter.  The hardware that is available to us today is simply not strong enough to withstand a 1000 lbs (or 2000lbs) setting back against it when tied to something solid.  However, when turned out, horses rub their heads on whatever is available, and it's all too easy for them to get caught in a way that they hang themselves and the halter doesn't break. 

[Silverd]

So much really appropriate first hand information.  Thank you again Big Sioux. You have been very influential in my making path.  I got strips cut for the prototype haulters this am.  They are mostly from the belly side of the hide at this point.  I trimmed the shoulder end off the hide a bit.  Cut enough material for five haulters if I don' screw up too much!  Do you recommend Beveling all of them at this point?  

Silverd 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Sorry Silver, I only saw your last comment just now.  You've probably already done what you were going to do, but I would bevel ONLY if you were going to make a riveted halter.  If you are going to line it and stitch,  I'd bevel the folds and wait with the rest until after you sew together.  If you don't, you'll find out why I said that

[Silverd]

Oops!  I've cut a bunch of blanks but have only finished two straps so far...quite the disaster they both are!  The folded throat strap was almost impossible to sew.  What''s the secret with that one???  Do you still put a wire inside like Steinke instructs?  The lead strap didn't lay flat on the needle plate and the back side stitch line came out almost off the edge in one section. Back stiches are laying on top back side so some tension adjustment needed.   Terrible work!  But I learned a lot.  And the Herman Oak is really nice.  I'm buying ebay used halters with good hardware to canabolize and have an order in with Weaver for 6 sets of new brass fittings. .photos to follow...you'll have a good chuckle!

 

 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

3 hours ago, Silverd said:

Oops!  I've cut a bunch of blanks but have only finished two straps so far...quite the disaster they both are!  The folded throat strap was almost impossible to sew.  What''s the secret with that one???  Do you still put a wire inside like Steinke instructs?  The lead strap didn't lay flat on the needle plate and the back side stitch line came out almost off the edge in one section. Back stiches are laying on top back side so some tension adjustment needed.   Terrible work!  But I learned a lot.  And the Herman Oak is really nice.  I'm buying ebay used halters with good hardware to canabolize and have an order in with Weaver for 6 sets of new brass fittings. .photos to follow...you'll have a good chuckle!

 

 

Well I am laughing, but only because these are CLASSIC pitfalls for the new leatherworker, and the same mistakes that we all made starting out. The folded throat strap, or rounded, as it is more correctly referred to within the trade, is a bit more advanced work.  I personally do not normally put wire in any of my rounds, but I do use a filler.  Do a search for "rounds" or "rolled work" and you'll find quite a few hits that will keep you busy reading for awhile.  I think Bruce Johnson might have a tutorial on it at his website.  The hardest part of making rounds is knowing how much to skive, and blending the turnback back into the round.  What I see nowadays that passes for rounds is atrocious.  The old time harness makers are turning over in their graves. 

I would bet that the reason you nearly sewed through the edge of your lead strap, is because you edged it first.  If you had learned how to sew on an old Landis One or similar, you'd REALLY learn how to prep your work to avoid this.  A 441 is a pretty forgiving machine, but the needle coming out the edge can still happen, especially when sewing several layers of really narrow straps, like a half inch cheek on a driving bridle. The layers have to be flat and square, no rounded edges.

While your first work might look pretty terrible, I guarantee you learned more than if I had just said "Make sure to do this, and don't do that". Telling you now what to do and not do will make more sense.

 Another word about rounds:  it takes a LOT of practice to do a good job.  I was already years and years in business, and years of hobby work before that, before I could make a round I wasn't ashamed of.  I remember being a young child and studying the round side checks on old work horse harness, wondering how in the heck they were made.  Even after I got all the necessary tools and equipment to make them, they still didn't look good.  Finally one day I decided I was gong to do nothing but make rounds, and not quit until I had it figured out, even if it took all the next day.  That was the day I learned to make rounds, but it is still a slow and painstaking process to do a good job, and I'll ruin an occasional one.

[Silverd]

I'm following you on this topic, completely.  I started another one this evening and have a few hours into it.  Im waiting for the dye to dry and leather to harden before attempting the sew.  Now I think I have the skive part very close.  I'e been able to use my 5 in 1 to skive the strap full length on both sides and just the last 7/8" of each end.  I'm attempting to fold the return to the inside.  Same as Steinke teaches.  If I were hand stiching I'd be done...but my objective is to machine it. Silly me huh!   Again I appreciate your guidance and letting me tough it through.  I will get this cause failure is not an option for me...know what I mean?  Sounds like you do.  This really is the fun part after all!

Edited June 26, 2018 by Silverd
Reword

[Silverd]

26 minutes ago, Silverd said:

I'm following you on this topic, completely.  I started another one this evening and have a few hours into it.  Im waiting for the dye to dry and leather to harden before attempting the sew.  Now I think I have the skive part very close.  I'e been able to use my 5 in 1 to skive the strap full length on both sides and just the last 7/8" of each end.  I'm attempting to fold the return to the inside.  Same as Steinke teaches.  If I were hand stiching I'd be done...but my objective is to machine it. Silly me huh!   Again I appreciate your guidance and letting me tough it through.  I will get this cause failure is not an option for me...know what I mean?  Sounds like you do.  This really is the fun part after all!

First attempt.  The "good" side!

[Silverd]

2 minutes ago, Silverd said:

First attempt.  The "good" side!

The "Truth" side