Knowledge vs. Experience

[Sheilajeanne]

Mike, here's the link to the workbook: https://www.amazon.ca/Drawing-Right-Side-Brain-Workbook/dp/1585429228/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531026046&sr=8-2&keywords=draw+on+the+right+side+of+the+brain

And here's a quote from the blurb about the workbook, which is very appropriate for this thread!

Quote

Learning to draw is very much like mastering a sport or a musical instrument: once you understand the basic skills, you must practice, practice, practice. This brilliantly designed and practical workbook from a world-renowned art teacher offers the perfect opportunity to improve your skills and expand your repertoire.

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Sheilajeanne

[Basically Bob]

... an interesting discussion, for sure. 

Reflecting on my own leatherworking experience, I find it fascinating, how, when I first started to construct things, (following the projects in Valerie Michael’s book) I poked myself with the awl, frequently.  The most frustrating thing about that was not the “pain”, but rather that the project was often ruined from the blood that dripped on it.  

It didn’t take long to learn that as soon as I felt the “poke” to quickly get my finger away from the project.  

What I find fascinating, is that I eventually learned how not to poke myself with the awl. I have no idea when it happened, it just happened ... with experience.  Like learning to ride a bike, I suppose.  

I often use Stohlman’s case making books as a reference.  I know that if I follow his methods that my project will be functional and “technically correct”.  That being said, the professionalism of the finished project is determined by how well I have learned and applied a collection of basic skills, that improve with practice and experience, like cutting, stitching, skiving and edge finishing.

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Basically Bob

[NVLeatherWorx]

23 hours ago, immiketoo said:

While technology has advanced, I am not convinced that society has evolved.  In fact, one could argue we have devolved, and you'd only have to look at the writings of Plato, or Aristotle, Benjamin Franklin or any of the great minds throughout history to support your argument.  Most people now days have very specialized knowledge but lack experience.  For example, I know someone who has earned her doctorate, and calls herself a genius, but she can't figure out how to remove the monthly train pass from the plastic backing it came on.  Or whose sole conflict resolution skill is crying and slamming the door behind her.  Genius.

You nailed it my friend.  I have been explaining to new people that I have to train in a work environment that is mechanically demanding and I always make it very clear that even though we have seen evolution in the technology behind how we design and build things, we have lost the true knowledge and experience of how to think on our feet and work through the issues that arise while on the task at hand.  We have become technologically advanced but our ability to use our minds to achieve the great things that mankind has been able to do throughout history is no longer there. The best example of this can be found in the design and construction of the Great Pyramids; with all of our technology today we are unable to replicate the process or results to even think about trying to build that same structure.  Experience is probably the best determining factor in one's successes but knowledge, when truly understood and applied, gives you the direction you need to go to gain that experience.

[immiketoo]

4 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

You nailed it my friend.  I have been explaining to new people that I have to train in a work environment that is mechanically demanding and I always make it very clear that even though we have seen evolution in the technology behind how we design and build things, we have lost the true knowledge and experience of how to think on our feet and work through the issues that arise while on the task at hand.  We have become technologically advanced but our ability to use our minds to achieve the great things that mankind has been able to do throughout history is no longer there. The best example of this can be found in the design and construction of the Great Pyramids; with all of our technology today we are unable to replicate the process or results to even think about trying to build that same structure.  Experience is probably the best determining factor in one's successes but knowledge, when truly understood and applied, gives you the direction you need to go to gain that experience.

Its not just the pyramids.  The Acropolis in Athens, Greece has been knocked down in numerous battles and put back together, and its only in the last 30 years that they realized that no two pieces of the columns are identical.  More than that, each piece has exactly one place it fits, and they have no idea how it was done.  Also, the structure eliminates parallax in that it looks straight and square from any vantage point, while in actuality it is anything but.  There were great minds in humanity, and I fear there aren't any left alive, with the exception of a few hidden away from society.

[Riem]

Very interesting conversation indeed! As an ex-corporate trainer and instructional designer I've spent countless hours studying and observing what true competence is about and how it is constructed. Yes, you need knowledge (acquired through "studies" or distilled from experience) and you need experience (the much talked about 10,000 hours of immersive experience) but there are two additional factors that need to be in play: aptitude and inspiration.

Without aptitude - the inherent ability to manipulate the tools of the trade - you will not achieve true competence. Someone who has the proverbial ten thumbs can acquire the knowledge of hand stitching, but the skill of using an awl or threading a needle may be a bridge too far.

Similarly there has to be inspiration (which is frequently incorrectly labeled as either 'motivation' or as 'attitude'). The spark that kindles the fire. The spark arises either within or arrives from external sources. When it arrives it has to hit the tinder of knowledge, prior relevant experience and aptitude at just the right moment in the right conditions before it will lead to action.

Learning and acquisition of skill is a messy affair. It does not come in neat packages. It is stochastic and not always goal directed - we frequently 'file away' an experience and extract the learning from it months or even years later. If there was a simple, single way to learn, we'd stand the danger of becoming interchangeable units of labour who are required to execute without passion.

Interesting indeed... Enough from me tonight

[immiketoo]

@Riem, You have exactly the experience needed to weigh in on this topic.  Great reply.

[Riem]

1 hour ago, immiketoo said:

@Riem, You have exactly the experience needed to weigh in on this topic.  Great reply.

Thanks, appreciate you saying that, @immiketoo

Learning and knowledge management are just some of the areas where I've spent a big part of my career. I'm still new here, and hope I'm not adding such academic stuff that is boring and scares others away. I've learnt such a lot from the participants on leatherworker.net that if I can add something that is of benefit to others, I will gladly do so.

I should have added that we humans seem to have a preference - hardwired or acquired - of learning through stories. We'd sit for countless moments listening to (and even participating in) the stories our 'elders' tell of how they solved problems or survived hardship or how they came out on top of some challenge. This is actually part of what I've learnt of as the "Primal Learning" cycle.

Back at the dawn of time, how did the early humans master the harsh conditions without modern conveniences? While we will never know with exactness, perhaps something like the following was involved.

At night, they'd be around the clan's campfire in whatever shelter they'd be taking refuge in, natural family groups would while away time by listening to the war stories of elders. The stories were likely more than factual with rich embellishments and villains and hero roles inserted that emphasised and idealised productive behaviours. "That mammoth with the sore leg that we killed two moons ago? Let me tell you how I found him!"... and out would come a tale about central roles and how to actions and leadership and whatnot. The campfire turned into the school where youngsters and inexperienced members of the clan would both be informed and inspired.

From the campfire they returned to the cave to rest and reflect. Reflection is perhaps the single most undervalued part of the learning process. In their reflection they would assimilate new information into what they already know. "Big Hairy said he could get within range of the mammoth when the wind was blowing in his face and not on his back. You know, when I tried to get close to that buck I was stalking last time, the wind was in my back. Maybe that's why the buck got away".

From the cave, the novice or youngster took his insights to the watering hole where he shared them with his friends. He got confirmation of his ideas and insights, i.e. he transferred the knowledge into a social setting to mobilise it into action. In essence, he socialised new ideas/knowledge with peers and gained support, legitimising action. This part is usually not a linear process - it may take long to gain acceptance, with many a return to the cave of reflection, until action is primed.

New knowledge has to be tested in the real world, so our ancestor and mates likely had to actively seek out opportunities in the veld to put their 'theories' into practice. If they were unsuccessful, it likely meant a return to the watering hole and the cave of reflection to refine their theory and amend it by adding further insights. It might have taken a trip back to the campfire - the school - to ask questions to enrich their learning. Until they had success in real life - a slain animal to contribute to the clan's upkeep. And also a new story to tell around the campfire.

If we pause a moment to ask "what type / category of threads on leatherworker.net did each of us learn the most from during the last year, I bet a fair number of people would cite topics such as "show your workbench or workspace" and "how did you get into leather work" and such less formal topics. Perhaps precisely because of the human stories that shone through in those topics...

Sorry for another long ramble...