First Stitching Irons Advice

[wrz0170]

Hey everyone.   Another new guy here.  I am just starting to hunt and gather all the pieces parts I need to get going on my first project.  Cutting mats, cutters, knives,  dividers, mauls, hammers, threads, needles etc.  List goes on which may be another subject matter on specific purchases altogether.   

My first goal is to assemble the basic items needed to practice saddle stitching.  To that end, I built my first stitching pony which came out pretty nice.  So that’s out of the way.  

Seems like one of the baseline tools is a good set of irons.  No holes, no stitch.  With that said, I appear to be zeroing in on a set of Crimsonhide’s set (5,2 @ 3mm and 4mm specifically ).   On the outer stretch of the budget,  maybe KSBlades (6,2 in 3-4mm).

I’ve watched Nigel’s videos and read the data sheets and there certainly is no shortage to pick from.   I think I know well enough that I’m not ready to use awls in conjunction.  

Real world use.  Those who have these; do you still enjoy using them?  Any regrets?  If you switched to these from another set, did they make your life a bit easier?

Am I missing another set to look at around the same price points and quality?

Thank you! 

William

[chrisash]

There are plenty of very low cost Pricking and diamond point chisels available on ETSY that will do a reasonable job for a few dollars, a set of 3.38 mm would seem a nice starter in 2, 6, and a larger size 10. you can take a file and work the sides smoother between the blades so less friction as tha'ts the area most of the cheaper versions have manufacturing uneven area's

Many tools at the cheap end are actually quite well made and usable by hobby folk whilst the professionals obviously get more out of tools they use every day so worth paying for the better ones, mind price does not always mean a increase in quality, C.S.Osbourne seem to have the balance right on cost V Performance

[koreric75]

I would say try a decent cheap-o set first, get them in a few different off sets so you can zero in on what works for your projects.  My 4mm set I bought on Amazon for less than $15, I like them allot, but only use them for projects that for the smaller stitches, I prefer the 6mm spacing for bigger projects and thicker leather... The thing about the cheaper sets, you're probably going to need to fine tune them, maybe polish them some, but it will have a better effect when you set out to drop some serious coin in a better set.  Don't count the awl out for starting, the sooner you pick it up and start the sooner you'll learn it... Just my 2 cents

[battlemunky]

Yeah, I would like to echo the awl comment from @koreric75 above. The sooner you get your awl figured out, the sooner you can reduce quite a few tools. I, for one, love tools. I have a fair amount but it's a typical noob inclination to tool up too heavily when you really only need about a tenth of what you'll buy at the outset. Now that I know how to use awls I really only use my irons to set spacing  and then use my awl to make the hole. It takes some practice but it is pretty cool when it comes together.

[wrz0170]

On 9/1/2018 at 5:45 AM, battlemunky said:

Yeah, I would like to echo the awl comment from @koreric75 above. The sooner you get your awl figured out, the sooner you can reduce quite a few tools. I, for one, love tools. I have a fair amount but it's a typical noob inclination to tool up too heavily when you really only need about a tenth of what you'll buy at the outset. Now that I know how to use awls I really only use my irons to set spacing  and then use my awl to make the hole. It takes some practice but it is pretty cool when it comes together.

Thank you both I will revisit the iron selections and see what I come up with..  I’m right there with ya. I love tools too. But, I like to only get tools I will need to get the job done and more importantly the right tool for the job.  I also learned; Buy quality once or buy twice.  Within reason of course.

William 

[chrisash]

Unfortunately the old saying Buy Quality once or buy twice, whilst often very true, Often it can be only experience that tells you exactly what tool you really need and preconceived idea's of quality can sometimes be miss-placed by fact

 

[wrz0170]

6 hours ago, chrisash said:

Unfortunately the old saying Buy Quality once or buy twice, whilst often very true, Often it can be only experience that tells you exactly what tool you really need and preconceived idea's of quality can sometimes be miss-placed by fact

 

Very true as well.  A Yugo and a Porsche (your legs or a bike) will all get you to point B.   A $150k vehicle doesn’t always guarantee reliability.  

For me, a tool should simply do its job without having to fight with it or heavily modify it out of the box to coax it into its job.  Starting off in a new hobby is filled with frustrations enough due to inexperience and lack of skill. 

[bikermutt07]

I will chime in on this....

The cheap sets on Amazon are great for dialing in what you want size wise.

I have a set of Wuta 3.85 that I like well enough. They are nice and we'll thought out. 

But, if I had it to do over again I would go the crimson route.

Also, keep in mind just because they are chisels doesn't mean you can't use them as irons.

[480volt]

I own a set of the Osborne irons and find that the teeth are a bit too wide and the angle not accute enough (not parallel enough to the stitch line). The geometry of the teeth on Blanchard irons is much better. I can’t speak to Wuta, Crimson, or KS Blade, as I try to keep my purchasing to old line companies that I hope will stay in business. I imagine VB will eventually succumb to the downwards pressure from the Korean and Chinese competitors much like Dixon did.

[wrz0170]

7 hours ago, 480volt said:

I own a set of the Osborne irons and find that the teeth are a bit too wide and the angle not accute enough (not parallel enough to the stitch line). The geometry of the teeth on Blanchard irons is much better. I can’t speak to Wuta, Crimson, or KS Blade, as I try to keep my purchasing to old line companies that I hope will stay in business. I imagine VB will eventually succumb to the downwards pressure from the Korean and Chinese competitors much like Dixon did.

Interesting!   I’ve read the data sheets and watched the videos from Nigel A.  Even watched several other vids from others.  Seems like the Chinese and Korean competitors are coming on very strong in the iron and leather tool markets in general.  Doing a decent enough job at at it as the demand seems high for their products. 

William

[wrz0170]

10 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

I will chime in on this....

The cheap sets on Amazon are great for dialing in what you want size wise.

I have a set of Wuta 3.85 that I like well enough. They are nice and we'll thought out. 

But, if I had it to do over again I would go the crimson route.

Also, keep in mind just because they are chisels doesn't mean you can't use them as irons.

Thank you for chiming in as well as the others who weighed in.  Much appreciated and many good points made.  I am zeroing in on the 3mm/4mm as my first project tutorial uses them and mentions that those sizes are just a good starting point.  Since said project calls for around 1mm, punch through should not be an issue  

I figure the awl work will come soon enough.   I just want to get the basics down. Cut, mark stitching line, punch and learn the stitch   I’ve learned in most of my hobbies; elimate the variables that you can at first.  Less frustration.  As proficiency and skills come about, then reintroduce variables one by one to learn them.  

If I may ask.  You said if you were starting out again, you would’ve gone the Crimson route.  What was it about them that you saw made them stand out to what you currently own?

Thanks again for the chime in. 

William

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by wrz0170

[bikermutt07]

@wrz0170 I do that same thing...

Like years ago when I first started shooting pool. I went and got my own cue. One less variable.

The reason I would do the crimson hides are the things Nigel pointed out in his review. It's a hybrid between an awl and irons. Makes perfect sense.

On thin flimsy stuff just punch right thru. On thicker stuff use them as irons in conjunction with the awl.

And I gotta tell ya., I don't hold the awl with the needles. I just can't do it. I mark with my irons then load the pony. Then I take my awl and wine cork backer and slice as many holes across my jaws as I can stitch. Stitch those, then move the piece forward and repeat.

It is slower for sure, but then again, I'm not leaking sissy juice all over my leather.

Here are some stitches from today. And I haven't done any bench time in several months.

 

I had to use really light pulls on this leather to avoid bunching.

 

[chrisash]

4 hours ago, wrz0170 said:

Interesting!   I’ve read the data sheets and watched the videos from Nigel A.  Even watched several other vids from others.  Seems like the Chinese and Korean competitors are coming on very strong in the iron and leather tool markets in general.  Doing a decent enough job at at it as the demand seems high for their products. 

William

Lets face it, with cad drawings and cad machines making pricking irons should be a simple enough exercise, where as a few years ago it would be quite a skilled job to do. They still don't spend enough time on finishing; as the big names but quite honestly, i cannot see much future for the small companies producing the high value items like these, in the next 5-10 years as mass production forces constant improvement as well as low prices

Interesting video by Harry Rogers on a Cheap Japanese style knife sold on Etsy as a few quid and how the steel is quite good seems to prove the point why mass produce using crap steel when you can spend a tiny bit more and get quite good steel, not the best certainly but maybe  a big improvement

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by chrisash

[csosborne]

On 9/3/2018 at 3:26 PM, 480volt said:

I own a set of the Osborne irons and find that the teeth are a bit too wide and the angle not accute enough (not parallel enough to the stitch line). The geometry of the teeth on Blanchard irons is much better. I can’t speak to Wuta, Crimson, or KS Blade, as I try to keep my purchasing to old line companies that I hope will stay in business. I imagine VB will eventually succumb to the downwards pressure from the Korean and Chinese competitors much like Dixon did.

Good afternoon,

This is Daniel With C.S. OSBORNE. We have never heard of this with our chisels. Some leather worker use a chalk line or markings before punching the chisel on their leather to receive that aligned stitch they want. Any questions please feel free to contact me at: cso@csosborne.com

Thank you
C.S. OSBORNE & CO
Daniel

[koreric75]

3 hours ago, csosborne said:

Good afternoon,

This is Daniel With C.S. OSBORNE. We have never heard of this with our chisels. Some leather worker use a chalk line or markings before punching the chisel on their leather to receive that aligned stitch they want. Any questions please feel free to contact me at: cso@csosborne.com

Thank you
C.S. OSBORNE & CO
Daniel

Just exactly how does that work? I did try contacting you after reading this same verbiage on another post where someone was not happy with their round knife...I had a problem with a stitching awl that I ordered thru amazon, but was c.s. osbourne & co ( ultimately what i wanted to ensure as not everyone is totally honest and there are many knock offs out there )....instead of a daniel i got an automated response and another follow up email from "lisa" that suggested i contact someone at www.osborneleathertools.com for my purchase...I thought that's who I was contacting?  I relented since it wasn't terribly expensive and threw it in the "never again" drawer until a later date that i could grind it down and actually make it sharp.  So i'm not surprised you've never heard these problems, unless you're on a forum, since unless i'm withing driving distance it would get lost in the cloud of the interwebs.

[bikermutt07]

@koreric75i would be willing to take a stab at that round knife, if you want. I have been sharpening things on my Kalamazoo for over a year now. I haven't tried a roundknife yet.

[koreric75]

24 minutes ago, bikermutt07 said:

@koreric75i would be willing to take a stab at that round knife, if you want. I have been sharpening things on my Kalamazoo for over a year now. I haven't tried a roundknife yet.

sure thing, just got in some new stones since i used my other set for the awl...lol, if you get it close to where the knip is I'll be ecstatic 

[bikermutt07]

28 minutes ago, koreric75 said:

sure thing, just got in some new stones since i used my other set for the awl...lol, if you get it close to where the knip is I'll be ecstatic 

I’ve only ever stropped that knife.

But I’m confident i can make it sharp.

[csosborne]

11 hours ago, koreric75 said:

Just exactly how does that work? I did try contacting you after reading this same verbiage on another post where someone was not happy with their round knife...I had a problem with a stitching awl that I ordered thru amazon, but was c.s. osbourne & co ( ultimately what i wanted to ensure as not everyone is totally honest and there are many knock offs out there )....instead of a daniel i got an automated response and another follow up email from "lisa" that suggested i contact someone at www.osborneleathertools.com for my purchase...I thought that's who I was contacting?  I relented since it wasn't terribly expensive and threw it in the "never again" drawer until a later date that i could grind it down and actually make it sharp.  So i'm not surprised you've never heard these problems, unless you're on a forum, since unless i'm withing driving distance it would get lost in the cloud of the interwebs.

Good Morning,

The website Lisa provided is a direct link we give our leather workers to buy direct. Typically we only sell thru distributors who resell our products to the public or end user. This is why we can really never replace items that are sold thru Amazon or Ebay because they are not a customer of ours. Those tools can be sold by anyone who already used them and has no use for them or a tool they inherited. We stand 100% behind our tools when it comes to damaged items or replacements....if this was a tool you recently purchased thru our distributor we would without a doubt send out a new one or replace. But as you said we have no control to what people are selling on Amazon or Ebay. Any questions please feel free to contact us

Thank you
Daniel
Sales

[jcuk]

Hello

 

I think you are talking about my round knife. I have replied to Daniel at Osborne on Sunday evening. I also posted a reply on another thread on this forum concerning the round knife please see here. 

 

The knife is now working fine and cutting well. 

Hope this helps 

JCUK

[koreric75]

6 hours ago, csosborne said:

Good Morning,

The website Lisa provided is a direct link we give our leather workers to buy direct. Typically we only sell thru distributors who resell our products to the public or end user. This is why we can really never replace items that are sold thru Amazon or Ebay because they are not a customer of ours. Those tools can be sold by anyone who already used them and has no use for them or a tool they inherited. We stand 100% behind our tools when it comes to damaged items or replacements....if this was a tool you recently purchased thru our distributor we would without a doubt send out a new one or replace. But as you said we have no control to what people are selling on Amazon or Ebay. Any questions please feel free to contact us

Thank you
Daniel
Sales

Thank you for the clarification, I am not sure how that works, the seller name on Amazon is C.S. Osbourne Co, link below...

Osborne #144-43 Stitching Awl with 1-1/4" Diamond Shape Blade https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L6M39I6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_oyxKBbJ313MWW

so I thought I was buying from the company proper... I've done a little research on drop shipping though and have found a few other sellers that do this, although I'm not sure how they can without some sort of blessing from the company and as such ensure quality.  I know I would not want my business name associated with a seller like this, this awl has a three star overall review history, allot of 5 star and allot of 1 star... And in between.  Until now I would have no reason to think the C's Osbourne selling awls on Amazon is any different form your distributors, and I can't be the only one there.  I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but wish this information would have been known to me prior...I can handle the $10 dud, and the metal seems to be good enough to Sharon and work, just wasn't what I intended when I bought it.  I realize now why there are so many $100 awl sellers out there, I reckon you pay for the labor of sharpening and shaping up front...

[koreric75]

1 hour ago, jcuk said:

Hello

 

I think you are talking about my round knife. I have replied to Daniel at Osborne on Sunday evening. I also posted a reply on another thread on this forum concerning the round knife please see here. 

 

The knife is now working fine and cutting well. 

Hope this helps 

JCUK

That's the one...

[wrz0170]

Just wanted to provide an update.   I rewatched several Of Nigel’s videos and reread data sheets (over Buffalo Trace and a cigar)  that helped with analysis paralysis.  Decided on a set of Crimson Hides.  It didn’t hurt that I had a nice eBay sale either    Look forward to trying them out and having some fun.   Thanks for the chime ins!  I know there were less expensive sets out there and probably would’ve gotten along well with them.  Sometimes you just have to go with the gut on what you want.  Less regrets.  

 

William

[koreric75]

8 minutes ago, wrz0170 said:

Just wanted to provide an update.   I rewatched several Of Nigel’s videos and reread data sheets (over Buffalo Trace and a cigar)  that helped with analysis paralysis.  Decided on a set of Crimson Hides.  It didn’t hurt that I had a nice eBay sale either    Look forward to trying them out and having some fun.   Thanks for the chime ins!  I know there were less expensive sets out there and probably would’ve gotten along well with them.  Sometimes you just have to go with the gut on what you want.  Less regrets.  

 

William

No worries at all, you gotta go with what makes you happy, I would also like a set of those crimson hides, one day after I've recouped some of my investments in machines, leather and other tools perhaps...my poor harley must feel neglected, all my fun money used to go there...lol

[wrz0170]

1 hour ago, koreric75 said:

No worries at all, you gotta go with what makes you happy, I would also like a set of those crimson hides, one day after I've recouped some of my investments in machines, leather and other tools perhaps...my poor harley must feel neglected, all my fun money used to go there...lol

I hear ya.   I just got over a very expensive sharpening system.  I just need one more pair of strops and some diamond emulsion and my set will be complete.  I can turn my attention to other toys.