Air brushing

[RegisD]

I make gunleather and I use Hermann Oak leather (4-5 oz., 7-8 oz., 9-10 oz. , ) and Fiebing's Pro dye.  A couple of months ago I started applying dye with an air brush.  I really like the smooth application, the ability to control the shade of the color, all good.  However, I'm a little concerned about whether the dye is getting good penetration into the leather.  A few times I've noticed the dye has rubbed off in areas after I've applied it and while I'm doing something else, like hand stitching.  This has only occurred before I seal it with 50/50 Resolene.  After I seal a piece I hand rub it with Montana Pitch Blend Leather Dressing.  My concern is over the long haul is air brushed dye durable enough?  I would appreciate any experiences from those who have been using an air brush for awhile.   

Thanks 

[bikermutt07]

I haven't, but this is what I've gathered here....

Airbrushing will never penetrate like hand dyed, but the general consensus is that the level of control is so much better that it offsets the lack in penetration. Also, everyone seems to thinl the scuffs add character.

This is just my hands off observation. I recently scored a whole bunch of airbrushing stuff so I will have some "hands on" soon.

[fredk]

Airbrushing the dye on can get the same penetration. I've only recently started spraying dye on. Just tried it on some coffee cup cuffs. Make sure your leather is on the wet side of damp, thin the dye a bit more than usual and apply many, many coats

[RegisD]

Okay.  Just to clarify, scuffs have been small and in areas such as around the throat or the toe of the holster.  So far I've just re-applied dye and keep- on- keeping- on.  Like anything else there is a learning curve. I'll get there.  Overall, I really like using the airbrush.  

bikermutt07,  I'm all about the character look, if you saw my personal gunleather you would think I dragged it across some rocks.  

Thanks! 

 

[bikermutt07]

@RegisD Sweet!

[robs456]

On 2018-09-20 at 4:22 AM, RegisD said:

However, I'm a little concerned about whether the dye is getting good penetration into the leather.  A few times I've noticed the dye has rubbed off in areas after I've applied it and while I'm doing something else, like hand stitching.  This has only occurred before I seal it with 50/50 Resolene.  After I seal a piece I hand rub it with Montana Pitch Blend Leather Dressing.  My concern is over the long haul is air brushed dye durable enough?  I would appreciate any experiences from those who have been using an air brush for awhile.   

 

On 2018-09-20 at 5:26 AM, bikermutt07 said:

Airbrushing will never penetrate like hand dyed

As you may know, the very nature of how an airbrush works make it so the dye will never penetrate as well as other forms of application, the best being dip dye of course.
Because the airbrush will vaporize the dye, the tiny tiny drops that make it to the leather will not be able to penetrate, and some may even hit the surface dry and get 'smashed' into the leather due to the air pressure. 
Only if you oversaturate an area, spray so much it gets wet and drips etc, will you get any penetration. But then you may as well dip dye. 
Using fredk's technique may work to improve things but not give 'good' penetration, also spraying layer on layer with an airbrush MAY mean that you put the dye on top of the previous layer to make it more durable yes, but not with better penetration. I've done this but didn't really experiment a lot so if someone could post some cut-throughs it would be great. 

For things that see hard use I dye 'normally' and then only use the AB to apply fades etc on top, but you guys seem to want the rustic look so then things should be fine by airbrushing only.

  

[bikermutt07]

@robs456 thanks for sharing that. I hadn't thought about dying something like normal and then airbrushing it. 

Best of both worlds.

When I start airbrushing I will give that a try.

[robs456]

1 hour ago, bikermutt07 said:

Best of both worlds.

Yup.

[ScoobyNewbie]

I’ve been told to “open the pores” of the leather before dying. I’m confused on what this actually means.

Do I water soak it, use just a little water, like when I’m stamping, or do I use oil? I’ve been told quite a few ways. It seems to change not only person to person, but project to project. 

I had a project that I oiled one part after dying, and other parts before dying and I got what I feel is wildly different effects. 

Can you explain what is meant by “open the pores”?

[RegisD]

robs456,  That is the ticket! Regular application and then an over layer with the airbrush to give it a nice smooth finish or for shading areas .  Your experience is much appreciated I like it! 

Thanks! 

[immiketoo]

I use neatsfoot oil to help set the dye after airbrushing.  It helps the pigment set deeper into the leather and makes those nasty rub offs go away.  I also oil between coats if I'm doing a fade.

 

[JLSleather]

You are not factoring in the PRESSURE behind the sprayed dye.  Shoot a gun next to something.  "tiny particles" (in the form of powder and packing) will actually EMBED in the material.  That's an extreme example, but the principle is the same.  More pressure, deeper drive. (in fact, that's true of ANYthing).

 

[ABHandmade]

In my last project, I diluted the alcohol dye with isopropyl alcohol in a 1: 1 ratio. As a result, the saturation of the dye decreased and I applied it by slower motion, and also got the opportunity to apply 2 and 3 layers "on wet". Having made a cut of the leather I saw a much greater depth of penetration. And the attempt of scratching after full drying almost did not leave a light trace on the leather.

I note that I'm using Toledo Super, which has been well tolerated by dilution with isopropyl alcohol. In the case of another dye, it is probably worth first checking the compatibility of the dye and alcohol on a small amount.

 

[alexitbe]

What sort of pressure should the pump supply?  Can one use a simple electric pump for tyres with 10 bars?

Thanks

Alex

[robs456]

18 hours ago, RegisD said:

robs456,  That is the ticket! Regular application and then an over layer with the airbrush to give it a nice smooth finish or for shading areas .  Your experience is much appreciated I like it! 

Thanks! 

Glad I could help!

[alpha2]

10 bars = 145 psi! That is way to high. But yes, a 10 bar compressor will work if turned down low. I airbrush at around 25 to 30 psi which is around 1.7 to 2 bars. It's very important for the air to be dry.

The pressure may vary depending on the tip and viscosity of the dye.

[immiketoo]

10 hours ago, alexitbe said:

What sort of pressure should the pump supply?  Can one use a simple electric pump for tyres with 10 bars?

Thanks

Alex

Good lord!  You're not sand blasting   I use 20 PSI max.  Low pressure, high volume helps with saturation.  Low and slow and build up to the color you like.

[alexitbe]

Clearly I have no idea... Maybe it could be a multi function air-brush... It dyes and skives all in one go...

Looking at it, I should look for an air-pump which is specifically for this purpose.  I guess they have better pressure control at the lower pressure required..

Is it realistic to get something ok for 100 dollars?

Thanks

alex

 

[battlemunky]

26 minutes ago, alexitbe said:

Maybe it could be a multi function air-brush... It dyes and skives all in one go...

That is too funny!

At least over here in America $100 air compressor works well enough. I have the one from Harbor Freight which isn't anywhere close to what I would call good, but is completely sufficient for airbrushing. It was $54 and can blow up to 100 psi. I also use it around 20 psi because my airbrush (also Harbor Freight) says that's what it is rated for. It literally took me about 10 minutes to figure out how to use it and from there it is like most things, the more you use it the better you get at it.

There are expensive models with quiet electric compressors but I paid about 1/5th of those for this particular setup and for the novice it is working fine. By the time it dies I'll likely have gotten good enough at it where I'll buy the next level up from there.

Edited September 23, 2018 by battlemunky
I can't speel gud.

[fredk]

I use, and have used for about 15 years, a 2nd hand air compressor designed for 'spray tanning'.  Mine is made by 'Babyliss'.  It cost me £8 [about $10?].   It has no pressure gauge so I never know just what psi I'm using; I just turn the pressure knob until I get a nice even spray for whatever I'm spraying

On 9/21/2018 at 1:21 PM, ScoobyNewbie said:

I’ve been told to “open the pores” of the leather before dying. I’m confused on what this actually means.

Do I water soak it, use just a little water, like when I’m stamping, or do I use oil? I’ve been told quite a few ways. It seems to change not only person to person, but project to project. 

I had a project that I oiled one part after dying, and other parts before dying and I got what I feel is wildly different effects. 

Can you explain what is meant by “open the pores”?

I reckon wetting the leather will 'open the pores' best; not soaking wet, but dampened right through. I wet it with a sponge, back and front. I always dye the back side of my work. I dilute my dye with water and meths [alcohol] and give the leather a good wet coating by spray.

On a coffee cup cuff done recently I started at one end, by the time I'd reached the other end the first had soaked in and looked dry-ish, so I started there again towards t'other end; back across again and again until the dye was taking much longer to soak in and was still looking wet, as I did this the strength of the colour deepened too. I could have stopped at any time, at any light shade but I wanted a deep colour.

 

[bikermutt07]

@fredk you going off to war? Your avatar is different.

[fredk]

I've had that for months now. I use the same one on all the forums I'm on

[alpha2]

NEVER underestimate a minion with a full-body helmet!

[ScoobyNewbie]

Thanks.

[VabaX]

On 9/21/2018 at 4:47 PM, robs456 said:

 

As you may know, the very nature of how an airbrush works make it so the dye will never penetrate as well as other forms of application, the best being dip dye of course.
Because the airbrush will vaporize the dye, the tiny tiny drops that make it to the leather will not be able to penetrate, and some may even hit the surface dry and get 'smashed' into the leather due to the air pressure. 

  

sorry, but from a chemistry/physics perspective, that is not at all how dye absorption works. It has nothing to do with the dye being applied by force. no matter what method you use, It is absorbed through the leather the same way that a sponge absorbs water; going from a wet/concentrated medium into an unconcentrated/dry medium ala ozmosis effect. ie, it gets sucked in to the material

 

the ONLY reason why airbrushing doesnt usually penetrate as deeply as wool dauber application is because you're applying far less of it. I will bet you my life savings that if you measure out identical volumes of dye and apply them to fixed/measured out areas of leather, one sprayed on in very heavy volume, and one applied by sponge/dauber, it will have exactly the same penetration.

 

The solution to more penetration is to open up that airbrush nozzle and let the leather drink up as much dye as it can. still better than dipping because its still more efficient in terms of dye use, far less messy, lower spill risk, easier to do several colours of dying in one batch, etc