awl Inexpensive awl? Kyoshin-Elle, Vergez Blanchard, Springfield Leather,LeatherCraftTools?

[GeneH]

I probably should get a diamond shaped awl to help stitch 2 or 3 layers of 8 oz leather, and thinner leather in upcoming projects. Steel and comfort I suppose matters most. Sharpening and finishing is a side-hobby of mine.

From reading threads here, I found these in my $ comfort zone.

Which should I purchase later this week? What size?

-   LeatherCraftTools dot com   PRO Diamond Awl 3 Tools Set    $21.50

-   Rocky Mountain  Kyoshin-Elle Awls    $18.00

-   Rocky Mountain  Vergez Blanchard Awl - Diamond  $21.99

-   Springfield Leather  Stitching Awl   $11.99

- Adding Wuta, good price, long shipping...

This might have been my first mistake - (incorrect size?)  I have a 2 prong Tandy Craftool Pro 3.5 mm chisel (wow did I actually spend that much on it?), Tandy waxed thread and some needles.  

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by GeneH
addendum title

[canonitr]

have you considered the awl from wuta? 

they are fairly cheap.. regarding awl size, they would classify small as 3mm, medium 3-4mm and large as 5mm

[GeneH]

1 hour ago, canonitr said:

have you considered the awl from wuta? 

they are fairly cheap.. regarding awl size, they would classify small as 3mm, medium 3-4mm and large as 5mm

...adding to the list. The pictures of the stitching awl look good, hope I can find then CONUS and not wait for a month from China.  [sometimes that's ok, this time I'm a little less patient.  :-)  ]

[canonitr]

you might want to try banggood then.. they have a US warehouse, tho i am not sure if they stock the item. Thing with banggood's "Wuta Awl", is that it has a non tapered brass ring, whereas the Taobao/Aliexpress one shows a tapered brass ring .. 

i got me quite a bit of stuff during Taobao's (China's Amazon) 11.11 sales period ( 4 orders between 12/11 - 16/11) and 3 of them are already in my country within 10 days.. previous 11.11 shipping was hell, where items could take up to 2 months before being delivered..

not sure how it would be for wherever you are tho ..

while Aliexpress is in english and sells the same items from the same vendor, I find that the prices on Taobao is cheaper.. only problem is that the Taobao site is entirely in Chinese... google chrome with auto translate helps a bit, but sometimes, you get funny translations..

[immiketoo]

I have all kinds of awls.  Leather Wranglers, Douglas, Osborne, some custom ones and the best by far for most of my work is one made by Lederlouis in Switzerland.  You can buy a prepared blade or a complete awl.  He is a master at shaping them and they make the neatest hole and are easiest to use.  I opted for the 45mm complete awl, but if you have a haft waiting for a blade, get just the blade.  

[canonitr]

but @GeneH want an inexpensive awl.... 

i have leathercrafttools 3 awl set, as well as Wuta awls... but, I don't use them much, except once in a while to widen holes..

[immiketoo]

Lederlouis is inexpensive, for a working awl thats good.  Leather wranglers is 200 bucks, Douglas awl is 120, so for a good awl, 20 bucks for a blade is pretty cheap.

[bermudahwin]

1 minute ago, immiketoo said:

Lederlouis is inexpensive, for a working awl thats good.  Leather wranglers is 200 bucks, Douglas awl is 120, so for a good awl, 20 bucks for a blade is pretty cheap.

Does anyone know if they have an English language website? My German is pretty much limited to food and drink, I know archetypal English man.

[immiketoo]

6 minutes ago, hwinbermuda said:

Does anyone know if they have an English language website? My German is pretty much limited to food and drink, I know archetypal English man.

Click the english or american flag on his website at the top right corner for mostly english.

[bermudahwin]

Cool, thanks, it does not show on my tablet, so I 'll check on the pc later.

Best

Harry

[immiketoo]

You bet.  His site isn't mobile device friendly and the translation isn't great either, but here's what I have.  https://shop.leder-louis.ch/product/Diamond-awl-ready-to-use-45-mm-S/1595

[Matt S]

@GeneH The Osborne 43 isn't too terrible for £10 (probably $10 Stateside).

 

You might also want to invest in a packet of John James harness needles. They're probably the cheapest top-level professional tool you'll ever buy.

[bermudahwin]

Brilliant, thank you.

Harry

[immiketoo]

19 minutes ago, Matt S said:

@GeneH The Osborne 43 isn't too terrible for £10 (probably $10 Stateside).

 

You might also want to invest in a packet of John James harness needles. They're probably the cheapest top-level professional tool you'll ever buy.

Truth.  If you're clever, you can easily modify an awl blade from a stock company like Osborne.  Good needles are a godsend.

[GeneH]

Not sure what size John James Saddlers Harness Needles to get- my current unused Tandy are (I think) 00 (1.2 mm shank). Maybe get  two sizes?

I would like to get the Leder_Louis but that's $39 as far as I can tell, the WUTA from Banggood is only 6.99, the Osborne 144-43 pretty cheap at less than $10 and I can get that pretty quick. Vergez Blanchard from Rocky Mountain at $22 ...

My guess is I will have to fiddle with any of the really inexpensive ones, any comments on the Vergez Blancard steel and shape of the blade vs the cheaper Osborne?  (Osborne also has thin Saddlers Harness think Awl blades and a nice haft total together though is close to $30.

(I like the haft shape- it's like my wood carving palm chisels) 

[zuludog]

Traditionally you bought a separate awl blade and a haft, then fitted them together and sharpened them yourself. This is pretty long winded and tedious, but you can still do it if you wish

So try to get one that's ready to go, but even then it can be improved by careful sharpening and polishing on a fine stone and a strop. Search YouTube for 'sharpening an awl'. There are several videos; watch them and you will see what they should look like, and how to use them

Note that the business end of an awl is not a point, it is a very small rounded chisel shape. If you leave it pointed it will bend; nip off the end couple of millimetres with the cutting blades of pliers, then carefully shape & sharpen it. A new awl might be pointed, or it might have been shaped by the manufacturer, you'll just have to check it when you get it

Vergez Blanchard have a good reputation, and the only thing that has stopped me buying one is that they have a minimum order of 100 euros for export to Britain. If you have found a supplier that will sell one at a time, I would seriously consider VG.

Kyoshin-Elle and Osborne are also good makes - yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice.

$20 to $30 is a fair price for a decent awl. There may be different sizes; get a medium or mid range one  

John James website is https://www.jjneedles.com Perhaps an American member can suggest a supplier in USA (I'm assuming you are American)

You want Saddlers Harness Needles, size 002, product code L3912. They are sold in packets of 25, which JJ call envelopes. About £5 in Britain, I don't know what they would be in USA

Your stitching chisel can also be improved by polishing the prongs with a needle file and/or a 'wand' made by gluing fine abrasive paper, say 600 grit, to a sliver of wood like a lollipop stick

You can lubricate the chisel and the awl with beeswax as you use them

[Matt S]

@GeneH the size of John James needles depends on what thread you're using. As Zuludog recommends above, size 002 is probably the general-purpose size, easy to use with 18/3 or 18/4 linen for instance. This size needle also works well with the 0.6mm and 0.8mm Ritza/Tiger thread. I keep sizes 004, 002 and 00 on hand for various sizes of thread. 004 is probably too small for any but the slimmest hand-sewing threads unless you roll your own linen threads, or scrape tapers into machine-rolled ones. Sizes 1 and 3 are exactly the same as 2 for... unclear reasons. 0, 00 and 000 are pretty hefty. I use 00 with 18/5 linen but find the eyes a little tight for 18/6 without tapering the ends -- 000 would probably be fine for such chunky threads.

[canonitr]

3 hours ago, GeneH said:

Not sure what size John James Saddlers Harness Needles to get- my current unused Tandy are (I think) 00 (1.2 mm shank). Maybe get  two sizes?

I would like to get the Leder_Louis but that's $39 as far as I can tell, the WUTA from Banggood is only 6.99, the Osborne 144-43 pretty cheap at less than $10 and I can get that pretty quick. Vergez Blanchard from Rocky Mountain at $22 ...

 

might just need to strop/polish the awl when you receive it..

for JJ needles, i use #004 mainly, (48mm long x 0.86mm) and have gotten the #003 (55mm x 1.02mm) as well.. #001, #002 and #003 are supposed to be the same size anyway..  i have the #1/0 & #2/0 when i first started out, but rarely use them as they are quite thick.. i have the tandy needles as well as Wuta #1 needles, but havent tried them out 

per Ian Atkinson's site, this is just a guideline he put up .. 

0.5-0.6mm thread - JJ #004 (10-12spi)
0.6-0.8mm thread - JJ #004 (8-9 spi)
0.8-1.0mm thread - JJ #002 (6-7 spi)

http://www.ianatkinson.net/leather/leatherguide.htm

He has a little chart on thread size between a few brands as well ..

Edited November 21, 2018 by canonitr

[GeneH]

Fabulous!  This last bit of info helps push me over the edge. I’ll hunt down the awl and needles tomorrow and get them ordered. 

Any new info is still greatly appreciated though! I may just get a better awl blade and haft if I can get the courage to mount it. I’d hate to damage the finish of a perfectly good awl. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by GeneH

[canonitr]

i've seen the nash anonymous hafts with separate awl blade available locally to me, but its something i dont use often, so i dont want to put down serious cash on it .. yet...

[YinTx]

Soo many choices out there.  You asked about the Blanchard, decent blade, but you have to put some work into it as well.  Barry King blades are pretty much Blanchards that have been worked over.

It depends on what I am stitching as to which awl I pick up.  My favorite by far is a 100 year old Racche blade.  The round blade top dead center with the blueing is a Racche.

YinTx

[Alisdair]

If you want a ready to use blade, you can't go wrong with a Barry King or Leder Louis. I have both, and they're excellent.

I also have the Vergez Blanchard - it's an excellent tool, but you'll have to do your finishing. If you're on a budget, I'd get this one....leaning n how to sharpen, finish and maintain your blades is an essential skill: even the most expensive blades will get blunt at one point.

[zuludog]

While you're spending money, you should get a round awl, aka a scratch awl, they're not very expensive

As the name implies, it is used to mark out a pattern on the leather, and also in back stitching to enlarge stitching holes without cutting the thread that's already in the hole. Then flatten the stitching with a mallet or a cobbler's hammer, and the holes will close up again

Protect the tips of the awl blades with wine bottle corks;  proper cork, not plastic. Oh, the things we must do for our hobby!

Edited November 21, 2018 by zuludog

[bermudahwin]

43 minutes ago, zuludog said:

Protect the tips of the awl blades with wine bottle corks;  proper cork, not plastic. Oh, the things we must do for our hobby!

I am up to 65 corks per awl, and drinking fast.. that doesn't include the screw tops, boxes and plastic that I have had to throw out!

Regarding nothing at all, did you know that good quality single malt whiskey has a cork glued to plastic, 'awl stand' or 'needle cushion' in its neck?

Muscht dasssh

Hic

Harry

Edited November 21, 2018 by hwinbermuda

[immiketoo]

1 hour ago, zuludog said:

While you're spending money, you should get a round awl, aka a scratch awl, they're not very expensive

As the name implies, it is used to mark out a pattern on the leather, and also in back stitching to enlarge stitching holes without cutting the thread that's already in the hole. Then flatten the stitching with a mallet or a cobbler's hammer, and the holes will close up again

Protect the tips of the awl blades with wine bottle corks;  proper cork, not plastic. Oh, the things we must do for our hobby!

What's wrong with faux cork?