Bell Skiver Choices - Which way to go

[blue duck]

I have dug through old posts concerning bell skivers. The information is quite helpful, but with so many brands, I would like your expert opinions. As there is not a dealer within 800 miles, I will have to have it shipped. Which also makes phone/internet support very important. For that reason alone, I have removed overseas brands/shipping from my list. I also started with dealers which are on this site or were recommended in other posts, thinking they will be more leather oriented than perhaps other sewing machine dealers. Here is a list with basic info I found. Any and all details you have including, prices/value, shipping, support, setup, additions, deletions, accessories and dealers is greatly appreciated. As to use, it will be mostly chrome tanned or light (less than 6 oz) veg tanned leathers. It won't be running all day long, just occasionally.  From what I gather, they are all similar (perhaps the FAV may be a different class), but you may know more. Have I missed something that should really be considered? 

https://store.keysew.com/catalog/product/b12c0c9db24c4a26b7d9513b9e58b80c

Consew DCS 53   $1345  free shipping    

 

https://goldstartool.com/consew-dcs-s4-skiving-machine-w-table-and-servo-motor.html

Consew DCS S4   $1149   ~$1 shipping           

 

https://www.leathermachineco.com/product/cobra-np-4-skiving-machine/

Cobra NP4   $1400    ~$300 shipping

 

https://www.springfieldleather.com/Bell-Knife-Skiver

Cobra NP4  $1400    ?? shipping (waiting on quote)

 

http://www.techsew.com/machinery/cutting-skiving-machines/techsew-sk-4-leather-skiving-machine.html

Techsew SK-4  $1295    ~$300 shipping

 

http://industrialsewingmachineman.com/machines/mach.asp?dir=leathercutting&brand=Techsew&Model=SK-4+Leather+Skiving&ProductType=Leather+cutting++Machines

Techsew SK-4   $1249   ~$7 shipping

 

http://artisansew.com/leathercuttingmachinesandclickers.html

Artisan NP-4 H NS  $1350   ?? shipping

 

https://campbell-randall.com/product/models-fav-av1-av2

FAV AV2TE  $3900 (or maybe it was $2900 must double check)  ~$500 shipping     Either way double or better in cost, is it double the quality?

 

http://www.solar-leather.com/cb801-bottom-feed-bell-knife-skiver

Cowboy CB-801 $1295  [This one then turned odd. Sent request for shipping amount. This was part of reply:   "The CB-801 will not skive chrome tan or vegtan leather, unfortunately. It is for finer leather like upholstery grade. At this time we do no carry a motorized skiver that will skive these leathers..."  Made me go huh?

 

Did check out Toledo Sewing, but didn't see a skiver on the site. Bob had helped me in the past and wanted to return the favor. Need to call?

 

I know this isn't exhaustive, but it is exhausting. Spending money is nerve wracking. Thanks for your time. Kat

Edited March 23, 2019 by blue duck
sp

[SolarLeatherMachines]

On 3/23/2019 at 2:18 PM, blue duck said:

Cowboy CB-801 $1295  [This one then turned odd. Sent request for shipping amount. This was part of reply:   "The CB-801 will not skive chrome tan or vegtan leather, unfortunately. It is for finer leather like upholstery grade. At this time we do no carry a motorized skiver that will skive these leathers..."  Made me go huh?

This is us.
Have you ever TRIED to skive these leathers on this type of machine?  You DO KNOW that the drag foot on top leaves drag mark in veg tan leathers, right?  That the portion that goes under the foot gets a burnished look on the surface that most leather crafters HATE, even when polished to a mirror shine?   

Sure, I could sell you a machine, and then you'd find this out, and then be REALLY unhappy about the money you've spent.  NO, I'd rather save you a bunch of hassle up front and TELL you why it's not a great solution for what you want.   

[blue duck]

Hi Alexander,

I must say that No, I have never used a bell skiver. Which is the major reason I wanted to get it from someone who would offer support. So I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to write. That said, other than chrome tan and veg tan, what other type of leather would this be used for? Guess I have more to learn than I thought. I was hoping this was the machine to make life in the shop easier, not create problems. 

[SolarLeatherMachines]

47 minutes ago, blue duck said:

I was hoping this was the machine to make life in the shop easier, not create problems.

Right?  exactly.  Machinery should solve problems, not create them!!   
The Bell knife skiver works great on upholstery grade leather that you would use for bags & purses, also thinner leathers for wallets.   For these products, the 801 is indispensable.  

Also, if you watch the videos on you tube, they're always whipping the pieces through the machine.  usually its foam pieces for shoes, and foam is SUPER easy to skive and fast to process.  However doing leathers is a whole 'nother ball game.  

The poster above is correct: find a dealer near to you and go and see one of these demonstrated.  A simple demo is worth a hundred online review from internet boffins.  And darn good insurance on buying the right machine.  

All of the suppliers you list have a good reputation and make good machines.  Obviously I have my favorite, but definitely choose the one that 'feels' best to you.  

[bikermutt07]

What about a top and bottom feed sliver? 

Are these no good leather thicker than say 2oz either?

[RockyAussie]

On 3/24/2019 at 5:18 AM, blue duck said:

I have dug through old posts concerning bell skivers. The information is quite helpful, but with so many brands, I would like your expert opinions. As there is not a dealer within 800 miles, I will have to have it shipped. Which also makes phone/internet support very important. For that reason alone, I have removed overseas brands/shipping from my list. I also started with dealers which are on this site or were recommended in other posts, thinking they will be more leather oriented than perhaps other sewing machine dealers. Here is a list with basic info I found. Any and all details you have including, prices/value, shipping, support, setup, additions, deletions, accessories and dealers is greatly appreciated. As to use, it will be mostly chrome tanned or light (less than 6 oz) veg tanned leathers. It won't be running all day long, just occasionally.  From what I gather, they are all similar (perhaps the FAV may be a different class), but you may know more. Have I missed something that should really be considered? 

https://store.keysew.com/catalog/product/b12c0c9db24c4a26b7d9513b9e58b80c

Consew DCS 53   $1345  free shipping    

 

https://goldstartool.com/consew-dcs-s4-skiving-machine-w-table-and-servo-motor.html

Consew DCS S4   $1149   ~$1 shipping           

 

https://www.leathermachineco.com/product/cobra-np-4-skiving-machine/

Cobra NP4   $1400    ~$300 shipping

 

https://www.springfieldleather.com/Bell-Knife-Skiver

Cobra NP4  $1400    ?? shipping (waiting on quote)

 

http://www.techsew.com/machinery/cutting-skiving-machines/techsew-sk-4-leather-skiving-machine.html

Techsew SK-4  $1295    ~$300 shipping

 

http://industrialsewingmachineman.com/machines/mach.asp?dir=leathercutting&brand=Techsew&Model=SK-4+Leather+Skiving&ProductType=Leather+cutting++Machines

Techsew SK-4   $1249   ~$7 shipping

 

http://artisansew.com/leathercuttingmachinesandclickers.html

Artisan NP-4 H NS  $1350   ?? shipping

 

https://campbell-randall.com/product/models-fav-av1-av2

FAV AV2TE  $3900 (or maybe it was $2900 must double check)  ~$500 shipping     Either way double or better in cost, is it double the quality?

 

http://www.solar-leather.com/cb801-bottom-feed-bell-knife-skiver

Cowboy CB-801 $1295  [This one then turned odd. Sent request for shipping amount. This was part of reply:   "The CB-801 will not skive chrome tan or vegtan leather, unfortunately. It is for finer leather like upholstery grade. At this time we do no carry a motorized skiver that will skive these leathers..."  Made me go huh?

 

Did check out Toledo Sewing, but didn't see a skiver on the site. Bob had helped me in the past and wanted to return the favor. Need to call?

 

I know this isn't exhaustive, but it is exhausting. Spending money is nerve wracking. Thanks for your time. Kat

I have a Fortuna and a FAV and both are pretty useful. They both have aspirators (vacuum to assist the waste removal) and having had a non aspirated skiver I would not go without again. NO offence to Alexander intended but I believe all of the machines you list above including the FAV are potentially able to do the work to a high standard with operator experience  and a roller foot which leaves next to no mark at all. I do a lot of glazed crocodile work and the scraping/scratching from standard feet is why I developed a roller foot for myself. I have done a few video's on my Fortuna skiver with roller feet and I recommend you to check out this one and maybe a couple of my others you can find from there. The video showing circular skiving is done with a roller I made for myself years ago and still use4 mostly every day. Thick leather, chrome or Veg is possible but best done in a couple of passes sometimes.

 

[RockyAussie]

Just did a few checks and please note that a few of the skivers in your list do not have covers for the top of the bell. I have taken the top skin off my fingers when not using one them and I do note also that Alexander's do have that feature http://www.solar-leather.com/cb801-bottom-feed-bell-knife-skiver

[blue duck]

Quote

6 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

please note that a few of the skivers in your list do not have covers for the top of the bell.

Now there is some VERY useful information! I don't recall seeing that addressed in other posts. So a those without a cover are easily off the list. Thank you so much.

As for your roller presser foot, I had seen it mentioned in other posts, but did not realize that you made it yourself. Add it to the list of cool dodads you have built/created. 

The video makes it look easy. Another learning curve. But I did notice how you snicked a bit off of the leading corner, that is a good trick to remember, and have never seen (or noticed perhaps) that before.

Thank you so much for your help.

 

[blue duck]

 

Quote

19 hours ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

Bell knife skiver works great on upholstery grade leather that you would use for bags & purses, also thinner leathers for wallets

I guess I am missing the distinction between chrome tan and upholstery leather. And that may be where my confusion is coming from. Could you please elaborate?

 

19 hours ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

find a dealer near to you and go and see one of these demonstrated. 

This is part of the original problem. I may find one 800 miles from me, but of the vendors I have heard of, think you are tied for mileage at about 1400. So one that has been tested and with support is going to be most useful to us.

 

[Ferg]

I have written so many times about my skiver experience......

I seldom answer anymore when someone asks about them.

My skiver is a COWBOY top and bottom feed. Very close to being a Fortuna, just enough difference to notice. 

I have three different shape rollers for the top, the one mimicking the shape of the bell knife is one I use most of the time.

These machines will skive any of the leathers easily except heavy Veg Tan. They tend to dull the knife quickly plus several passes are definitely necessary making it tiresome to reset 

for small runs.

I have mentioned numerous times, these are not for the faint of heart. A very high learning curve and they will drive you "bonkers" some times just when you think you have it all figured out.

I find that U-Tube and many other videos fall short in actually educating you to how to run these machines.

Hours of playing with them and chewing up all that scrap leather you thought you would never have a need for. 

Bell knife must be kept sharp beyond anything you can or have ever imagined. BTW: I have never seen a bell skiver without all the shields in place.

That said, keep your fingers away from the knife similar to keeping them out of a meat slicer.

I use a serrated steel feed roller. They work better than the stone in my opinion and are a lot easier to keep clean.

Vacuums may very well do the best job????? I made a sheet metal "chute" that fits under the machine and directs the skivings into a cardboard box. Doesn't make any noise either.

IMHO: There are few dealers who know much about bell knife skivers. Mostly because they don't sell all that many of them. Unlike sewing machines that are used everywhere and anywhere.

A dealer who offers service and the basic knowledge is your best bet. I do not care how much leather you take with you to try on a machine, there is nothing that will teach you how to use them

any more than experience and trial and error.

Different speed for feed roller and knife is easily changed/varied on this machine. You simply change settings of your belts into a different sized drive pully.

I always thought I would like to have a Fortuna. After buying my COWBOY with top and bottom feed I prefer it to the stationary top presser foot on the Fortuna's I have observed.

Ferg

Edited March 27, 2019 by Ferg

[SolarLeatherMachines]

17 minutes ago, Ferg said:

I have written so many times about my skiver experience......

I seldom answer anymore when someone asks about them.

My skiver is a COWBOY top and bottom feed. Very close to being a Fortuna, just enough difference to notice. 

I have three different shape rollers for the top, the one mimicking the shape of the bell knife is one I use most of the time.

These machines will skive any of the leathers easily except heavy Veg Tan. They tend to dull the knife quickly plus several passes are definitely necessary making it tiresome to reset 

for small runs.

I have mentioned numerous times, these are not for the faint of heart. A very high learning curve and they will drive you "bonkers" some times just when you think you have it all figured out.

I find that U-Tube and many other videos fall short in actually educating you to how to run these machines.

Hours of playing with them and chewing up all that scrap leather you thought you would never have a need for. 

Bell knife must be kept sharp beyond anything you can or have ever imagined. BTW: I have never seen a bell skiver without all the shields in place.

That said, keep your fingers away from the knife similar to keeping them out of a meat slicer.

I use a serrated steel feed roller. They work better than the stone in my opinion and are a lot easier to keep clean.

Vacuums may very well do the best job????? I made a sheet metal "chute" that fits under the machine and directs the skivings into a cardboard box. Doesn't make any noise either.

IMHO: There are few dealers who know much about bell knife skivers. Mostly because they don't sell all that many of them. Unlike sewing machines that are used everywhere and anywhere.

A dealer who offers service and the basic knowledge is your best bet. I do not care how much leather you take with you to try on a machine, there is nothing that will teach you how to use them

any more than experience and trial and error.

Different speed for feed roller and knife is easily changed/varied on this machine. You simply change settings of your belts into a different sized drive pully.

I always thought I would like to have a Fortuna. After buying my COWBOY with top and bottom feed I prefer it to the stationary top presser foot on the Fortuna's I have observed.

Ferg

Wholeheartedly agree with all of this.  

Alexander.

[RockyAussie]

7 hours ago, blue duck said:

 

Here is a post I did awhile back that has some links that may be useful with regards to the roller making.

 

[Ferg]

Similar to the roller I have on my COWBOY. I have modified it somewhat since it comes with both ends similar to your larger end.

Ferg

[blue duck]

Mr. Ferg thank you for your input it is truly appreciated. 

Mr. Harry thank you again for your information.

I do believe the list just got shorter again. I just need to keep in mind: "Buy once, Cry once" and do it right the first time.

Thanks to all of you.

[bikermutt07]

@Ferg, I'm glad you posted this at least one more time. I'm not in the market for one, but if I ever get there I will remember your words.

Thanks.