Long shot...Siruba machines?

[Sugarkryptonite]

Hi guys

This is a looooong shot, but I'm looking at getting a coverstitch machine (more used for clothing not anything to do with leather). Local classifieds has a Siruba industrial coverstitch machine for $300, apparently in working condition. The brand is "Siruba". If anyone here has heard of Siruba or has experience with them in the past, this post is for you! 

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1. Could anyone give me some info about this brand?

2. Are they good machines? I have a walking foot industrial already (albeit Singer) so I'm not new to the industrial type machines, or working on them, but I am new to the coverstitch models.

3. Any idea on parts availability? It's hard to get a read on the model, but it seems to be C007something

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Here's a picture of it. It does seem well used, but again, the price is reasonable.

https://i.imgur.com/nmTDOe7.jpg[/img]

Also if anyone knows of a forum that would be more appropriate for this question, that would be great as well. This is the only forum I know for industrial type sewing machines.

[trash treasure]

Siruba is a major maker of these machines - Some of them are for specialized operations, though, so beware.

That looks like an older top & bottom machine, and parts, etc may or not be available - Best advice is to go and sew it off with some fabric you want to use, and see if it does what you want.

We have a Kansai coverstitch machine, newer than that one, and paid a LOT more for it - But if you sew knits a lot, they can do a miraculous job, if they're working right - If you buy it, find a service and parts manual if you can - They are complex machines, with a lot going on, mechanically  - Think serger on steroids, and NOT for the mechanical faint-of-heart ........

[Sugarkryptonite]

8 hours ago, trash treasure said:

Siruba is a major maker of these machines - Some of them are for specialized operations, though, so beware.

That looks like an older top & bottom machine, and parts, etc may or not be available - Best advice is to go and sew it off with some fabric you want to use, and see if it does what you want.

We have a Kansai coverstitch machine, newer than that one, and paid a LOT more for it - But if you sew knits a lot, they can do a miraculous job, if they're working right - If you buy it, find a service and parts manual if you can - They are complex machines, with a lot going on, mechanically  - Think serger on steroids, and NOT for the mechanical faint-of-heart ........

Thanks for your help! Yea I would like to get into knits, mostly trying my hand at some athletic/active type wear. I found another one in much better condition (looks almost new) for $400, and the guy is willing to deliver it, so maybe I'll go that route. Anything you say I should look for specifically on the machine? Things that are common to break?

Edited April 24, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[DrmCa]

If you are serious about industrial sewing of knits, you would curse everything if you bought a 5-thread coverstitch w/o an automatic thread trimmer.

I have the Kansai 5-thread coverstitch which is almost identical to the pictured machine and if I had to cut threads by hand instead of reversing the pedal up, I would hang myself. Save some money for an automatic machine and a compressor.

[Sugarkryptonite]

8 hours ago, DrmCa said:

If you are serious about industrial sewing of knits, you would curse everything if you bought a 5-thread coverstitch w/o an automatic thread trimmer.

I have the Kansai 5-thread coverstitch which is almost identical to the pictured machine and if I had to cut threads by hand instead of reversing the pedal up, I would hang myself. Save some money for an automatic machine and a compressor.

Yikes, thanks. I'm not doing any sort of crazy production type sewing, just for my own hobby use in my house. Automatic thread trimmer would be nice for sure, but not sure I can justify that. Is it standard on the Kansai, or is it an option that was added?

Edited April 26, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[trash treasure]

A trimmer is an option on these machines - really for production use, when you have miles of seams to sew.

We use a Kansai WX-8000, without a trimmer, in our pattern and prototype shop, for knit work. My wife loves it - She says you'd have to pry it from her cold dead hands :~)

I will say that, if you buy one, be aware that they are shockingly HEAVY - At least the Kansai is.   We have it in a submerged table, and I had to reinforce the sub table (that the actually machine sits on / in), with steel angle, as it was starting to crack.   So check the table ..........               

Edited April 26, 2019 by trash treasure

[DrmCa]

Yes, they come with and w/o pneumatics, and the automatic machine is approximately $300-400 more expensive when used.

The head weights about 80kg. I know - I carried it to the 2nd floor of the house once.

[Sugarkryptonite]

Geez, thanks for the heads up guys. Unfortunately the deal seems to have fallen through, after having made a deal already with the seller, it seems as though he has done a deal with someone else instead. Such a piss off 

[dikman]

It happens, mate. Not all sellers will do the "right" thing.

[Sugarkryptonite]

19 hours ago, dikman said:

It happens, mate. Not all sellers will do the "right" thing.

You're right about that.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[Sugarkryptonite]

Another question I had about a Siruba overlocker, 2 needle 5 thread, safety stitch machine. Can these machines produce the "normal" 4 thread overlocker stitch that most of us use from day to day? Or are they only capable of producing that 5 thread safety stitch? There is a machine for sale insanely cheap (like giving away cheap), but I don't want that 5 thread stitch, just the normal 4 thread.

Model is Siruba 757 516L1-35. I can't find the manual online anywhere for it, unfortunately.

 

EDIT: It seems from this manual for a similar (although I think newer model), they have different model numbers for different machines, which leads me to believe this machine cannot do a 4 thread stitch.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[trash treasure]

I believe you're correct - That machine will do a 5 thread safety stitch or a 3 thread (by pulling one needle), but it wont do a 4 thread stitch.

[CowboyBob]

Some brands  have a looper you can buy that eliminates the one thread to convert it to a 4-spool.

There's one on ebay,I tried to cut & paste it but it won't work,it's called a spreader $15.00 

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by CowboyBob

[Sugarkryptonite]

1 hour ago, CowboyBob said:

Some brands  have a looper you can buy that eliminates the one thread to convert it to a 4-spool.

There's one on ebay,I tried to cut & paste it but it won't work,it's called a spreader $15.00 

Interesting so it replaces one of the loopers? Or is it just to make a 2 thread stitch?

Also, can anyone confirm if the "L1" designation means it has no differential feed?

Edited April 28, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[CowboyBob]

A 5-spool uses 3-spools on the over edge with the right needle & 2 spools with the left needle ,the looper goes on the right overcast looper,the one that goes over the top & will turn your machine intp a 4-spool w/a a true safety stitch.

[Sugarkryptonite]

On 4/28/2019 at 3:19 PM, CowboyBob said:

A 5-spool uses 3-spools on the over edge with the right needle & 2 spools with the left needle ,the looper goes on the right overcast looper,the one that goes over the top & will turn your machine intp a 4-spool w/a a true safety stitch.

Very interesting, thanks Bob.

I guess I should update this thread. I ended up contacting the guy who was selling the coverstitch machine again after he said it was reserved for someone else; long story short, I ended up picking up the machine yesterday. Price was $420. Looks to be in very good shape, other than being low on oil in the reservoir, seems it had leaked out on the table at some point (machine hasn't been used in many years, but still turns very well), there's still oil in the reservoir, as can be heard when shaking the machine around, and if you run the machine, can still see it coming out the top in the viewing port.

1) In the manual it says to use "Mobil #10 or ESSO #32 or its equivalent pil". Anything normal that I can use? Will regular sewing machine oil work? Or is this a special type of oil? It also seems to have an oil filter on the side of the machine, which I will try to get from somewhere...

2) Any tips for cleaning out all the old lint in the machine? I've never had a machine that was this dirty, so not sure what to do.

3) Lastly, this machine has the ability (I believe) to do a coverstitch on the top and bottom at the same time, it came with this little arm that was not being used by the previous owner. It seems to attach to another rod at the back of the needles that turns slightly back and forth when the machine is running. Do any of you know how to time that part of the machine? There's nothing in the manual about it.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[dikman]

There's a lot of lint there!! You could probably start with a pair of tweezers and pull out as much as you can, then a fine brush and a vacuum to finish off.

[CowboyBob]

I would spray something like WD40 on it & blow it off with air if you have an air  compressor.That arm is for the upper thread to make it cover the stitch on top,it really isn't that hard to install,put it on & you'll see it needs to go in front of the needles,all the way to the left so the thread from it goes behind all the needles.

Any clear sewing machine oil will work.

Edited May 2, 2019 by CowboyBob

[trash treasure]

Bob is right - That arm is called the spreader, and it mounts where your circle is, and travels back and forth to "spread" the upper thread across the stitch. You do know, that on these machines, the handwheel rotation is CLOCKWISE - REVERSE, like a serger, right ?

Now keep in mind, I have a Kansai, but it's a similar machine, making a similar stitch - On the Kansai, the spreader is adjusted so the right, inner  point clears the LEFT needle by about 0.5 - 0.8mm, as it travels past from right to left on the needle downstroke.

At the end of it's leftward travel, the same inner point should wind up 4.5 - 5.5mm to the left of the left needle, just before it reverses travel.

I keep editing this, as I remember stuff - You have to make sure the spreader clears the thread guides - For the guide with the curved hole - At it's RIGHT travel end, the point should be approx. centered under the curved slot - So adjust the guide accordingly. For the upper, small moving guide, at the end of it's downstroke, make sure it clears the lower guide by about 1mm and is centered, or a little bit to the left of the center of the slot on the lower one. WHEW !

I've done these adjustments, and it's really not hard to do, if you have good eyes (or magnifying glasses, like I do), and some metric Allen wrenches (I see yours are just regular screws), so if you can't find more specifics for your Siruba, this will probably get you in the ballpark, hopefully.    But I'd really urge you to try and get an adjuster's manual for that series, if at all possible - It'll save you a lot of grief :~)

The actual TIMING of the spreader is done internally, and is supposed to be adjusted depending on the thread used.  But I don't have a Siruba, and I'll not pretend to tell you about adjusting that!

These machines, being self-oilers, are unfortunately going to be oily, especially as they are used and a little worn - There MAY be an adjustment for the oil feed, but I don't know on your machine - You'll just have to keep ahead of the lint, by blowing it out with compressed air - It could get messy!    Just use "Lilly White" type sewing machine oil - Buy a gallon!

Good Luck!

Edited May 2, 2019 by trash treasure

[fredk]

I'd not use WD40 on this as WD40 leaves a residue which lint just loves to stick to. Nor would I use any of the motor oils. You can get superthin sewing machine oil, but I use good ole 3-in-1 oil

To clean this I would wash and rinse it down using paraffin oil. That will wash off the old oil and take away the stuck on lint. use a 1" stiff paint brush to help. Then re-oil using s/m oil or 3-in-1

[trash treasure]

I just looked at your photos again, and it looks like you HAVE a manual - Doesn't it have the spreader adjustment in there?  Why did I just type all that?

Edited May 2, 2019 by trash treasure

[Sugarkryptonite]

9 hours ago, dikman said:

There's a lot of lint there!! You could probably start with a pair of tweezers and pull out as much as you can, then a fine brush and a vacuum to finish off.

Thanks. I haven't looked that deep into it but I hope I can take some covers off on the bottom of the machine under that point to help clean it out.

3 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

I would spray something like WD40 on it & blow it off with air if you have an air  compressor.That arm is for the upper thread to make it cover the stitch on top,it really isn't that hard to install,put it on & you'll see it needs to go in front of the needles,all the way to the left so the thread from it goes behind all the needles.

Any clear sewing machine oil will work.

Thank you, when you say "all the way to the left", you mean with the needles up or down?

2 hours ago, trash treasure said:

Bob is right - That arm is called the spreader, and it mounts where your circle is, and travels back and forth to "spread" the upper thread across the stitch. You do know, that on these machines, the handwheel rotation is CLOCKWISE - REVERSE, like a serger, right ?

Now keep in mind, I have a Kansai, but it's a similar machine, making a similar stitch - On the Kansai, the spreader is adjusted so the right, inner  point clears the LEFT needle by about 0.5 - 0.8mm, as it travels past from right to left on the needle downstroke.

At the end of it's leftward travel, the same inner point should wind up 4.5 - 5.5mm to the left of the left needle, just before it reverses travel.

I keep editing this, as I remember stuff - You have to make sure the spreader clears the thread guides - For the guide with the curved hole - At it's RIGHT travel end, the point should be approx. centered under the curved slot - So adjust the guide accordingly. For the upper, small moving guide, at the end of it's downstroke, make sure it clears the lower guide by about 1mm and is centered, or a little bit to the left of the center of the slot on the lower one. WHEW !

I've done these adjustments, and it's really not hard to do, if you have good eyes (or magnifying glasses, like I do), and some metric Allen wrenches (I see yours are just regular screws), so if you can't find more specifics for your Siruba, this will probably get you in the ballpark, hopefully.    But I'd really urge you to try and get an adjuster's manual for that series, if at all possible - It'll save you a lot of grief :~)

The actual TIMING of the spreader is done internally, and is supposed to be adjusted depending on the thread used.  But I don't have a Siruba, and I'll not pretend to tell you about adjusting that!

These machines, being self-oilers, are unfortunately going to be oily, especially as they are used and a little worn - There MAY be an adjustment for the oil feed, but I don't know on your machine - You'll just have to keep ahead of the lint, by blowing it out with compressed air - It could get messy!    Just use "Lilly White" type sewing machine oil - Buy a gallon!

Good Luck!

Thanks, I'll try to test it out like that. A bit confused when you say "the right, inner point clears the LEFT needle by about 0.5 - 0.8mm, as it travels past from right to left on the needle downstroke", but then "At the end of it's leftward travel, the same inner point should wind up 4.5 - 5.5mm to the left of the left needle, just before it reverses travel." When you say "clears the left needle by about 0.5-0.8mm", you mean front to back clearance? That would be adjusted by messing with the screws on the spreader bar itself to change the angle, right?

And when you say "right inner part", you're talking about this, correct?

2 hours ago, trash treasure said:

I just looked at your photos again, and it looks like you HAVE a manual - Doesn't it have the spreader adjustment in there?  Why did I just type all that?

You're right I do, but as I said in my OP, I did not find any information about it in the manual. There is info about spreader thread take up, but nothing about the spreader itself. The manual for this machine is extremely lackluster compared to some other industrials I've seen.

2 hours ago, fredk said:

I'd not use WD40 on this as WD40 leaves a residue which lint just loves to stick to. Nor would I use any of the motor oils. You can get superthin sewing machine oil, but I use good ole 3-in-1 oil

To clean this I would wash and rinse it down using paraffin oil. That will wash off the old oil and take away the stuck on lint. use a 1" stiff paint brush to help. Then re-oil using s/m oil or 3-in-1

Thx!

Edited May 2, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[trash treasure]

OK - Yes that's the inner point - The little point closest to the needles, that actually catches the thread - That's the one you measure from.

Yes, you have to use both screws to adjust it - On the Kansai, the bottom of the spreader needs to be 9-11mm above the needle plate, to start with.   Loosen both screws to get it in the orientation I described above - The spreader should NOT contact anything but thread, anywhere in it's travel.

I didn't see that you said your manual had no info on it - I told you I need magnifying glasses ;~)  

Now, your real assignment is to go find yourself a proper service manual for that thing, really - If you have to pay for it, it'll still be well worth it.

[Sugarkryptonite]

10 hours ago, trash treasure said:

OK - Yes that's the inner point - The little point closest to the needles, that actually catches the thread - That's the one you measure from.

Yes, you have to use both screws to adjust it - On the Kansai, the bottom of the spreader needs to be 9-11mm above the needle plate, to start with.   Loosen both screws to get it in the orientation I described above - The spreader should NOT contact anything but thread, anywhere in it's travel.

I didn't see that you said your manual had no info on it - I told you I need magnifying glasses ;~)  

Now, your real assignment is to go find yourself a proper service manual for that thing, really - If you have to pay for it, it'll still be well worth it.

Thanks again, I'll try to get it figured out tomorrow. Wish  i could find a service manual for the machine...seems to be very little information about this model online. 

I cleaned the whole machine today, came out pretty decent. I put 1L of oil into the reservoir, which is all I had on hand, and the float indicator didn't even move...I'm guessing it will take more than that to bring it up...thankfully the oil comes out as a steady flow out of the top tube now. Not sure why the machine was empty...or near empty...I doubt it was emptied for transport as it was still in the same house where it had been used for the past years.

A few more things I noticed:

1) In the manual for the newer looking machine (C007 instead of F007), it states to fill the oil holes in the bottom compartment of the machine 

After looking more closely at my machine, there are no holes like in the manual for the newer machine. No info about this in the manual that came with the machine (again, very lacking in detail). 

I put a few drops of oil where the bushings are on the shafts, and it seemed to seep in, but there are no actual oiling holes I can tell. Do these self oiling machines also somehow oil the bottom part of the machine, or is it just the top head of the machines where the main shaft is? Or do I need to somehow oil the bottom manually? I filled the little oil reservoir shown in the picture above, which feeds towards the needle area...not sure if the felts are even positioned correctly.

2) I noticed as the bottom spreader goes across the machine, both of the needles rub against it and are moved out of the way slightly. Is this by design, or is there something wrong somewhere? I've included a short video clip of it, hopefully it is visible. 

 

Thanks everyone

[Sugarkryptonite]

Found out where the oil was coming from...went to go check the machine again tonight just to make sure, and sure enough, oil is all over the place. Seems to be leaking out of the pan, not sure from where, maybe one or two of the bolts that go through from the bottom, the seal around the edge, or who knows where. Guess I have to take it all apart, this will be fun