New to me Consew

[jrjr2u]

Been lurking for a while! Just brought home a nice 206RB-4 that has seen little use. It has  a 1/2hp 1750rpm clutch motor. I think I got a decent deal at $450. It is sewing great so far but it's pretty fast and hard to go slow with control. Read lots of info on optimizing these beast motors but in the end I think I am going to be best off to go the servo route.

Been looking at the Consew CSM1000 as the 3 piece design seems appealing with the control adjustments right out in front for easy access. I would like to achieve one stitch per second or perhaps a touch slower since I am pretty green at sewing and have the capability to go some faster as my skills improve. Been sewing entirely by hand till now.

Does anyone think this servo motor will achieve my goal or will I have to add a speed reducer as well? Thanks for any info!

[tofu]

The Consew servo was pretty much the only servo with suspiciously numerous negative reviews. 

 

I went with the sewquiet and get stitch by stitch on my 226 if I tap the pedal, but other people like the familysew. 

[jrjr2u]

29 minutes ago, tofu said:

The Consew servo was pretty much the only servo with suspiciously numerous negative reviews. 

 

I went with the sewquiet and get stitch by stitch on my 226 if I tap the pedal, but other people like the familysew. 

This is the one I am talking about.... reviews are pretty good I thought.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016EJ1WB6/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=A2IGZ09LPUKLVH&psc=1

Anyone here with first hand experience?

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by jrjr2u

[dikman]

Looks to me like you got a great deal! Make sure you fit a 2" pulley on the motor (every bit helps) but a speed reducer will certainly help, as it will give increased torque at slow speeds. Best thing, however, is to just fit the servo first and try it as is, you might find it works fine for your needs.

[jrjr2u]

10 minutes ago, dikman said:

Looks to me like you got a great deal! Make sure you fit a 2" pulley on the motor (every bit helps) but a speed reducer will certainly help, as it will give increased torque at slow speeds. Best thing, however, is to just fit the servo first and try it as is, you might find it works fine for your needs.

Yes I have seen the smaller pulleys available for the Consew servos. Are pulleys universal in that they will fit any motor?

Question is which Servo motor to get.... I now see mixed reviews on this site after searching a bit.

Edit... Looks like the familysew from Toledo comes with a 2" pulley already installed. These seem to be preferred on this site too... may just run with that.

Edited June 1, 2019 by jrjr2u

[dikman]

If you ask a question about anything you will always get conflicting reviews. I didn't comment on which one to buy as I'm in Australia so the ones you mentioned aren't readily available. I bought 3 from Aliexpress (Skyrit brand) and one "locally" via ebay (a fairly generic type). No problems with any of them.

If you find a majority of opinions in favour of one brand then that's probably as good a basis as any on which to make a decision.

Pulleys - most servo shafts appear to be the same size, although there is the odd one that is different. Either buy the pulley from the same place as the motor or wait until you get it and measure the shaft to make sure.

Edited June 2, 2019 by dikman

[jrjr2u]

5 hours ago, dikman said:

If you ask a question about anything you will always get conflicting reviews. I didn't comment on which one to buy as I'm in Australia so the ones you mentioned aren't readily available. I bought 3 from Aliexpress (Skyrit brand) and one "locally" via ebay (a fairly generic type). No problems with any of them.

Different people have different opinions? Who would have thought! 
I have ruled out the csm1000 due to too many of said people that have erratic slow speed issues.
Looks like the familysew will be the one I get. Will give Bob a call Monday.
Thanks dikman! Appreciate the responses.

[Wizcrafts]

The only servo motors I would avoid are those with push button controls. The ones I have and had all started rotating at between 200 and 300 rpm and have no smooth transition from off to on. Conversely, most of the rotary switch and pot controlled motors do transition smoothly from zero on up. Unfortunately, those motors often suffer from low startup torque when the maximum speed has been turned way down. This calls for a 2:1 or 3:1 speed reducer to be thrown into the mix. Of course, the smallest possible motor pulley helps a lot.

Every sewing machine has a different size pulley in the flywheel/handwheel. Most are about 3 to 3.5 inches in diameter. Even a 2 inch motor pulley doesn't get you 2:1 reduction unless the machine pulley is at least 4 inches diameter (at the top, where the v-belt rides). Only the biggest and heaviest machines have 4 inches and larger pulleys. Shaft sizes are not universal, so a big hand/fly wheel from an old Singer may or may not fit on a newer or Chinese machine.

[Mark842]

Yep...what whiz said on the servo motors with a pot over buttons. The only exception I've had is the servo motor used on my Cobra 4 but that would be overkill for your application.

 

While your waiting for your new servo motor to arrive find a piece of foam and jam it under the foot pedal. Simple trick that helped me control my speeds with a clutch motor on a fast machine.

[Wizcrafts]

Personally speaking, I would prefer a clutch motor with a 2" pulley over a pushbutton servo motor that starts spinning at 300 rpm. One can learn to feather the clutch, but can never feather an on-off switch. I have clutch motors on a few machines and prefer them over any servo due to the nature of those machines.

[jrjr2u]

So how does this sound... 206rb4, Family sew servo, 2" motor pulley, change the hand wheel to a 5" pulley.

I will tinker with the clutch motor first. Have a couple ideas which include extending the lever on the motor.

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by jrjr2u

[kgg]

54 minutes ago, jrjr2u said:

So how does this sound... 206rb4, Family sew servo, 2" motor pulley, change the hand wheel to a 5" pulley. 

If you assume the servo can turn at the 100 rpm setting under load then the 5" pulley will turn at 40 rpm, 6" pulley would turn at 33 rpm, 4" pulley would turn at 50 rpm. A more realistic servo motor setting would be at least 200 rpm which would change the numbers to:

4" pulley would turn at 100 rpm

5" pulley will turn at 80 rpm

6" pulley will turn at 66 rpm

1 hour ago, jrjr2u said:

I will tinker with the clutch motor first. Have a couple ideas which include extending the lever on the motor.

Extending the clutch engagement lever will give you better speed control, be a bit more forgiving and make feathering easier but nothing for speed reduction. For speed reduction you would need to install a speed reducer pulley between the clutch motor pulley and the sewing machine pulley.

kgg

[dikman]

Fitting a larger pulley in place of the handwheel is actually a very good option in place of a speed reducer (not quite as effective but works well). It's something I do with my machines. I didn't mention it because I didn't want to confuse you. While Wiz is correct about the "push button" servos, in practice it's not an issue for me as I run a 45 mm pulley on all my motors, larger pulleys in lieu of the handwheels and a reducer on a couple as well (one machine will do one stitch every 2 1/2 seconds!!). My aim is to give slow controllable feeds, and while it works for me probably won't suit the more competent users.

[jrjr2u]

1 hour ago, dikman said:

I didn't mention it because I didn't want to confuse you.

I don't confuse easily

1 hour ago, dikman said:

While Wiz is correct about the "push button" servos, in practice it's not an issue for me as I run a 45 mm pulley on all my motors, larger pulleys in lieu of the handwheels and a reducer on a couple as well (one machine will do one stitch every 2 1/2 seconds!!). My aim is to give slow controllable feeds, and while it works for me probably won't suit the more competent users.

Do you have a setup like I described with no speed reducer inline and only the 2 pulley changes on a digital (push button) brushless motor?  I'm sure that's not one that gives the 2.5 second stitches.... but does it do one second with torque if you do?

Regarding this Family Sew servo motor, I have read where it performs well at start up and then in another post its lacking torque at startup. Don't quite know what to make of it all without buying and trying. That can get costly. I have spent many hours researching this with no clear answer but it is what it is I guess.

[SARK9]

First, congrats on the 206RB-4 deal, that is a nice looking machine.

To add a dissonant note, on the subject of "push button" servos, I must say that I have used nothing BUT the Consew servers for a number of years. These "push-button" servos all seem to be "branded" to suit and essentially made under the same roof, as far as appearance goes. The Consew branded servo has undergone quite an evolution since I got my first one, with enough minor AND major changes to merit a revision number, yet all of the later models are still called "CSM-1000".  Here is a quick snapshot of the variations that I personally have bought, which is probably not all inclusive. All but the CM were advertised by various vendors as Consew CSM-1000.

I still use 3 of the CM-1000's with the optical gradient speed controller, and I've had 2 others which left with the machine I installed them on. None gave me any problems, but you did need to do some mods on the controls for the best results. All the other CSM-1000 types seem to use a Hall effect sensor, which tends to start more abruptly. The latest ones I've purchased that have 4 buttons and a 4 character display seem to be better in that regard. For my use, the lowest initial-on speed seen with almost any of these is not sufficiently into the motor's power band to use on heavy materials as installed. I only use direct drive pulleys on machines sewing moderate fabric and set the RPM to the max rated speed of the individual machine, which some of these motors can easily exceed. All of the machines which see thicker material like my Juki 563, Consew 206RB-5, Seiko SK-6, and the Mitsubishi cylinder arm have speed reducer pulleys fitted.   I've yet to have one of these motors "go bad" myself.

All of the clutch motors which came with any machines I bought in used condition have been discarded as scrap. I don't do repetitive piecework in a garment factory, and I really find the buzzing and the various "personalities" of these 40lb. watermellon sized relics pretty annoying. If I need 3000SPM, I get it easily. The garment factories still in business have been retiring clutch motors with various new machines using REAL servo type motors with electronic clutches and other automated pneumatic or solenoid actuated functions since forever, and lately, with the direct drive electronic motor very similar to the retail push-button servo in many ways. 

-DC

[jrjr2u]

18 minutes ago, SARK9 said:

To add a dissonant note, on the subject of "push button" servos, I must say that I have used nothing BUT the Consew servers for a number of years. These "push-button" servos all seem to be "branded" to suit and essentially made under the same roof, as far as appearance goes. The Consew branded servo has undergone quite an evolution since I got my first one, with enough minor AND major changes to merit a revision number, yet all of the later models are still called "CSM-1000".  Here is a quick snapshot of the variations that I personally have bought, which is probably not all inclusive. All but the CM were advertised by various vendors as Consew CSM-1000.

 

Thanks for the reply!

I have yet to find a csm1000 with 4 buttons and 4 place display. Where did you find that?

[SARK9]

10 minutes ago, jrjr2u said:

I have yet to find a csm1000 with 4 buttons and 4 place display. Where did you find that?

I've bought 2 of them in the last 18 mos or so. I'll have to check the receipts to see which was the Consew, and which was the generic "Rex". I know you do NOT want the one character display version. I surfed around until I saw the picture of what was being offered, taking note of the display.

-DC

[jrjr2u]

1 hour ago, SARK9 said:

I've bought 2 of them in the last 18 mos or so. I'll have to check the receipts to see which was the Consew, and which was the generic "Rex". I know you do NOT want the one character display version. I surfed around until I saw the picture of what was being offered, taking note of the display.

-DC

I found one, but with an odd name

https://www.amazon.com/Mophorn-CS1000-Machine-4500RPM-Industrial/dp/B07HFTMR8Z/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=cs1000+servo&qid=1559525019&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Edit-
And another.... not sure about these brand names ya know?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eagle-EA-550-Brushless-Sewing-Machine-Servo-Motor-W-Needle-Positioner-550-Watts/401551596108?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by jrjr2u

[dikman]

That first one looks exactly the same as the last one I bought (locally) right down to the position of the power switch. Works fine, but I couldn't get it slow enough for my needs even with a 7" pulley on the head unit and a 2" on the motor, so I made a reducer as well with  2" and 5" pulleys. This is the one that now does 1 stitch every 2 1/2 seconds.

My Pfaff 335 has a 10" pulley and a 2" on the motor, using a Skyrit motor and that works well at sewing slow. There are photos in my other posts somewhere. They're all brushless motors.

[jrjr2u]

After much consideration, research, and communications I ordered these:
Servo
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZIYZYAY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Pulley for the handwheel
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD41M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If I need to I will install a speed reducer but I think this may get me to an acceptable state.

Thanks everyone for your input! I will post back with the results.

 

[dikman]

It's a good start, however most motors appear to come with a 3" pulley, which will only give you a 2:1 reduction. If you fit a 2" to the motor you will get 3:1, an easy option before going to a reducer.

[jrjr2u]

This one comes with a 60mm so in between..... 2.36"....we'll see. I didn't care much for the switch position  but I went for function over form. I can always remote the switch.

Edited June 5, 2019 by jrjr2u

[dikman]

oops. wrong post.

Edited June 5, 2019 by dikman

[jrjr2u]

1 minute ago, dikman said:

I haven't used this one much but the switch isn't a problem (just different to my other servos) as the unit is mounted at the right/front of the table so easy to get to.

?

The one I ordered is the sewquiet. The switch and buttons are on the motor. Which one were you referring to?

[dikman]

AArrrggghhhh! Idiot! I clicked on the link in the wrong post! I'll delete it forthwith!